Article - Does the Witness stance on WAR prove they are the true religion? (page 2)

Honesty

A person doesn't have to physically harm another to have hatred in his heart for others.

AuldSoul

Failing to go to war can sometimes demonstrate a lack of love.

Organizationally disfellowshipping people—wherein the ones who shun others have little or no idea why—is always a lack of love and often accompanied by slanderous gossip. The Bible likens slander to killing people from a place of concealment (sniping).

proplog2: While refusing to kill other humans in war is a neccesary condition to claiming that a religion follows Christ it is not a sufficient condition to making that claim.

I disagree. More to the point, the "necessary conditions" for claiming to follow Christ should be found in the Bible. Refusing to go to war is not a "necessary condition" found in the Bible. It is an interpreted condition applied strictly (on pain of shunning) by Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization.

Love for neighbor is a requirement. Shunning others for acting on their conscience in areas where there is no strict guideline in the Bible is always a lack of love, even if the one thus shunned chose to go to war.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

blondie

(1 John 4:20-21) 20 If anyone makes the statement: "I love God," and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.

(1 John 3:15) 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a manslayer, and YOU know that no manslayer has everlasting life remaining in him.

(Matthew 5:21-22) 21 "YOU heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.’ 22 However, I say to YOU that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·hen´na.

Good point, Honesty.

proplog2

Auld Soul & Blondie & Honesty and any others that want to engage in equivocation.

Do you really believe that Jesus was saying that "hating" your brother is the same as "killing" him. Or perhaps was he raising the bar for Christians. Wasn't he saying that the course of hatred could lead to killing? Do you really believe that you can't hate people but at the same time you can "kill" them in a war.

Hatred and killing are not the same. We are not talking about Hate. We are talking about killing your enemies when Jesus said you must love your enemies.

You are shifting the meaning so you can poison the well and discredit JW's and preclude your need to consider the merit of their stand.

Do you understand that this doesn't free you from the guilt of killing? And it is actual "killing" that is involved in war.

Or maybe you feel as the inquistionists that you can kill a heretic to save his soul.

Give credit where credit is due. JW's have beaten their "Swords" into ploughshares and the vast majority of Christian Religions have NOT.

The argument that they believe in Armageddon and are really inclined to violence is a stupid claim. If you want to blame anyone blame the Bible that advocates all sorts of schemes for killing off the infidels. Kill em all off at one time - or throw them individually into a fiery hell where they burn forever. At least JW's believe that people aren't tortured forever.

Furthermore the fact that you are employing such a tactic shows that in actuality you Hate JW's which seems to be the focus of this forum .

AuldSoul

proplog2,

Hate does not equal kill. Hatred is not required in order to kill. Nor is enmity.

I had a dog that I loved very much. She was so ill she was in constant pain. Killing her was not an act of hatred. If she had presented a danger to the health or safety of others hatred would (again) not be required in order to kill her.

I defintely do not believe Jesus was equating hatred with killing. Jesus will kill people, according to the Bible. You are the one asserting some correlation. Jehovah's Witnesses promote their own love by stating that they do not go to war. This is not one of the ways in which Jesus' disciples were encouraged to show love. However, in the ways Jesus showed love Jehovah's Witnesses fail to follow his example.

proplog2: JW's have beaten their "Swords" into ploughshares and the vast majority of Christian Religions have NOT.

No, JWs haven't. They simply use weapons other than physical ones. They are full of hatred, in ways Jesus specifically rejected as Pharisaical.

However, the Bible equates killing from concealment to slander. I don't make that comparison, the Bible does. Directly. The Bible doesn't say God detests war. The Bible does say that he detests bearers of false witness.

For all your ruffled feathers and posturing you failed to present any Scripture to prove that Christians must not engage in war. Killing does not equate to hatred. It also does not mean murder. It means ending a life and can be for the best possible of reasons.

As far as goes labeling someone a despicable fool, I have felt so labeled many times by active JWs and JW apologists.

Isaiah 2:4 — And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

Note: Nothing in this verse applies to a religion at all, Jehovah's Witnesses or any other. He has not yet render judgment nor set matters straight respecting many peoples. So the time for fulfillment of this has certainly not yet arrived. Once again, Jehovah's Witnesses clap themselves self-aggrandizingly on the back for charging ahead of God's timetable.

You seem to think they deserve praise for an outward showiness of a lack of hatred when what Christ commands is an outward showing of a presence of love.

And you accuse me of equivocating? Look in a mirror when you accuse me, you should be talking to yourself.

—AuldSoul

blondie

Nothing is black and white. If someone was attacking me or my husband, I would try and stop them, even if it lead to killing them. That is a personal issue.

But what did Jesus mean about hate = murder?

Well, he uses this same reasoning here not too far after the scripture on hate = murder.

(Matthew 5:27-28) 27 "YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to YOU that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Paul did not kill Stephen, but he looked on in approval; did Paul realize he was guilty of murder? Paul probably never killed any of the Christians he caught and turned over, but did Paul think he was guilty of murder?

Like I said, this is not a black and white issue. I understand self-defense but when does it become self-defense? Is this issue being discussed from a religious or non-religious viewpoint? Christians are not the only ones against murder.

I know there will always be people who think their enemies lie many miles away from them even across the ocean. I know that the real ones are only a few miles down the road hoping I will leave my doors/windows unlocked, prey on lone females walking in the dark, abusing their own children behind closed doors, etc.

Blondie

proplog2

Blondie:

Jesus was trying to throw off the Pharisees. He was taking their self-righteous reasoning to the level of absudity. Who hasn't committed adultery, murder and other sins in their heart?

If Jesus didn't represent a break from the nationalistic struggles on the Earth then he wasted his time. But most people get it. They know that Jesus is synonymous with love. A love that allowed him to be scourged, beaten and crucified (yeah, I'm learning) rather than retaliate against his enemies.

Christian martyrs weren't supposed to kill as many of their enemies as possible in some sort of physical religious battle.

That thinking is what makes the Moslem religion so superfluous in the evolution of mankind. The Jews killed over their land. Jesus came to show a better way. Mohammed brought back the killing. If you believe its ok for a Christian to kill others in warfare you might as well be a Moslem.

AuldSoul

proplog2,

Your judgmentalism is a true testament to your character. Your close-mindedness is a testament to your mental agility.

—AuldSoul

proplog2

Auld Soul:

So I am judgemental - now how about justifying Christians Killing in wars.

AuldSoul

How about Scripturally accusing Christians? You haven't been able to do so. Why would I feel a need to defend against your unbased opinion?

—AuldSoul

Article - Does the Witness stance on WAR prove they are the true religion?

Share this