Havn't posted in a while but i came across this rather interesting bit of trivia that i would like to hear from ya about. The letter of Jude at verses 14,15 make reference to a Prophesy of Enoch. This prophesy is not found in the cannonical Old Testament books but is found in the Apocryphal Book of Enoch at Enoch 1:9. Most all scholars don't believe the book of Enoch was actually written by Enoch the 7th in line from Adam but Jude Attributes this prophesy to him. So what yall think? I'd like to here what christians have to say. I havnt got a chance to look up if the Wtbs has written anything about this though...
Jude and Enoch
by thebiggestlie 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mavie
Interestingly enough, I was reasearching this last November. Here is the link
http://www.thomschat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7526&highlight=enoch
I first came across the book in my new "Archaeological Study Bible". I love this book. You can typically find it in bookstores. I found this one at a Barnes and Noble in the Bible section.
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thebiggestlie
Mavie i was just thumbing through that bible Saturday at the book store. Looked pretty interesting... And i've always had an interest in apocryphal books as well. Bel in the dragon and Tobit are pretty cool books
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greendawn
It's a fact that Jude was quoting from an apocryphal book that is not considered inspired by mainstream Christian religions. There are more quotations in other NT books that have unknown or apocryphal sources.
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Leolaia
You may want to take a look at my thread on the subject:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/85223/1.ashx
I show that not only does Jude quote 1 Enoch 1:9, but it also shows influence from 1 Enoch all over the place, the passage in 1 Enoch 1 was essentially "plagiarized" from the OT, other parts of the NT utilize material from 1 Enoch, and 1 Enoch was regarded as sacred Scripture by many early Christians.
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mavie
I find it to be a nice resource for exiting dubs. The articles give balanced viewpoints about biblical culture.
As far as the book of enoch, there is a one authoritative english version out there...by some english dude 100 years ago..just amazon it.
As far as the WT and the Book of Enoch, this is how they get around it:
*** w019/15p.30EnochWalkedWithGodinanUngodlyWorld***
Does
theBibleQuoteFromtheBookofEnoch?The Book of Enoch is an apocryphal and pseudepigraphic text. It is falsely ascribed to Enoch. Produced probably sometime during the second and first centuries B.C.E., it is a collection of extravagant and unhistorical Jewish myths, evidently the product of exegetical elaborations on the brief Genesis reference to Enoch. This alone is sufficient for lovers of God’s inspired Word to dismiss it.
In the Bible, only the book of Jude contains Enoch’s prophetic words: "Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him." (Jude 14, 15) Many scholars contend that Enoch’s prophecy against his ungodly contemporaries is quoted directly from the Book of Enoch. Is it possible that Jude used an unreliable apocryphal book as his source?
How Jude knew of Enoch’s prophecy is not revealed in the Scriptures. He may simply have quoted a common source, a reliable tradition handed down from remote antiquity. Paul evidently did something similar when he named Jannes and Jambres as the otherwise anonymous magicians of Pharaoh’s court who opposed Moses. If the writer of the Book of Enoch had access to an ancient source of this kind, why should we deny it to Jude?—Exodus 7:11, 22; 2 Timothy 3:8.
How Jude received the information about Enoch’s message to the ungodly is a minor matter. Its reliability is attested to by the fact that Jude wrote under divine inspiration. (2 Timothy 3:16) God’s holy spirit guarded him from stating anything that was not true.
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Leolaia
There are more quotations in other NT books that have unknown or apocryphal sources.
Here is another one, with a hypothesis on what the source of the quotation may be:
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thebiggestlie
i Was aware of some other OT quotes like that of the book of the wars of YHWH but i don't know to many from the NT. GreenDawn can you remember any of those? And what are implications of bible writers quoting lost and/or aprocryphal books. One of the arguments FOR the canonocity (sp) of biblical books is that they are mentioned or quoted by other bible writers. Also at the 1st centurey AD there was no set cannon and many of the letters were just that, letters. So a wide variety of books and letters were availble to early christians as well as Jews in Jesus day if im not mistaken.
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Leolaia
mavie....I refute those claims in my thread. Also, Charles' translation of 1 Enoch is very dated...I would recommend getting Nickelsburg's new translation which is widely considered the best translation out there, it is pretty cheap on Amazon.com.
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mavie
thanks leo.