Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses??? huh?

by cultswatter 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie
    blondie

    CCS, the WTS dances around "how" those in heaven communicate with the anointed on earth. They have said that the angels no longer have direct contact with humans as individuals; that they do not receive visions; that they do not receive inspiriation from God re the holy spirit (as individuals and not as a group). I have asked numerous GB members how i works, how do they know what God wants them to do.

    1) Read the Bible (product of holy spirit)

    2) Pray for understanding and holy spirit

    3) Discuss it other spirit-anointed men who have done #1 and #2

    4) Somehow they may reach a consensus of opinion (2/3 majority actually).

    God seems to have not been very good in communicating the "truth" considering all the "adjustments" and "clarifications" made by the WTS/FDS/GB over the years.

    Blondie

  • Cold Creek Swimmer
    Cold Creek Swimmer

    Blondie,

    I often wonder the same thing. If what was truth then, is not truth now, and if this is God's perfect organization, then god must have changed his mind. I find it quite ironic that in over 2000 years, the basic structure of the bible is still intact, but in less than 150 years 90% of Dub belief is different. How does that work?

    CCS

  • undercover
    undercover
    I have not seen...anything specific that supports the idea that only annointed are Christian. ...info points to different info-not a direct line claiming such. I
    ...please explain...where specifically this is said. Inferences do not count as actual facts-especially in light of the comments made by Jeffro. Nothing bothers me more than having to defend the WTBS, but I don't see in anything so far that this is the case.

    Unfortunately, this is a case of where reading between the lines is necessary. When doing so, one person might not see the same results as the next person.

    In Jeffro's case, and I respect his point of view, his opinion is that since there are enough instances where the WTS lumps the anointed and non-anointed together as Christians coupled with popular definition of the word christian, then all JWs are considered Christian, as far as JW doctrine goes.

    I respectfully disagree. Even without direct quotations available to show my opinion, the wording of some of the articles lends itself to seperating the anointed and non-anointed from the Christian congregation. I have to ask; if the true Christian congregation is made up only of the anointed, where does the leave the non-anointed? Tying that together with the documented fact that the WTS teaches that Jesus is mediator only for the anointed and that the New Covenant does not include non-anointed along with the early attitudes and teachings as Blondie has already pointed out, then it leads me to consider that they(whoever sets policy/doctrine) really believe that the non-anointed are not considered True Christians.

    In either case, we'll never get a straight answer from the organization. The WTS is not an honest organization. They're not going to print, in plain language, what the doctrine really means, because any way they do it, they'll either contradict earlier doctrine, contradict current doctrine and/or alienate thier followers.

    Remember the controversy regarding 1975? The WTS never came out in print and said the Armageddon was going to happen in 1975, but yet anyone who was around then can tell you that there was expectation of it happening then. The live talks were sometimes very direct on the subject, but everything in print was vague and careful to not directly say Armageddon was coming in 1975. Yet, the JWs read between the lines and saw that the WTS was trying to stir them to action. Even after it came and went and the WTS tried to blame the friends for assuming too much, the WTS had to admit that they were at least partially to blame for creating the atmosphere of expectation.

    Granted, it is a minor point of contention, when there are so many other issues with this religion that create pain, suffering and even death to its members.

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    The JWs say that the only way for Jesus to be the mediator for the great crowd is by their ASSOCIATION with the annointed ones. And if they have no direct contact with Jesus how could they then be called Christians? The JWs say that the entire NEW TESTAMENT is written FOR and ABOUT and TOWARDS the annointed and not the great crowd so it appears to be impossible to become a named "Christian" unless you meet the requirements of being one of the annointed first.

    They cant have it both ways. They cant segregate the annointed and take away the mediator for the rest of the flock and then lump them back together when its convenient for public scrutiny.

    You get the same answer when you ask a JW if they believe that you have to be a baptized JW in order to be saved at Armageddon and be in the paradise. Their literature SCREAMS in no uncertain terms that you HAVE TO BE a baptized JW in good standing to get through Armageddon and deserve paradise, but yet we were told to basically lie to the worldly questioner and say Gosh....we just dont know because only Jehovah knows hearts.

    ???????????????

  • undercover
    undercover

    okay that formatting didn't work too well....I'll have to work on it and redo it...

  • undercover
    undercover

    To demonstrate how the WTS conveniently leaves out crucial information in certain articles depending on the audience or the message, let's compare what the Society says about what Paul wrote at 1 Timothy about "one mediator between God and man".

    Ask the average JW and they don't realize that Jesus is not their mediator but is mediator for the anointed only. It's in print, it's an official doctrine but for some reason, the average dub misses out on it.

    Here's the official doctrine:

    *** Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31 Questions from Readers ***

    Questions from Readers

    • Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?

    The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.

    Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

    The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant...

    Now, let's notice how the WTS conveniently leaves out these important facts about Jesus not being mediator for the vast majority of mankind in this article on the Trinity:

    ONE of the main reasons why Jesus came to earth also has a direct bearing on the Trinity. The Bible states: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."— 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 .

    Jesus, no more and no less than a perfect human, became a ransom that compensated exactly for what Adam lost—the right to perfect human life on earth. So Jesus could rightly be called "the last Adam" by the apostle Paul, who said in the same context: "Just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive." ( 1 Corinthians 15:22 , 45 ) The perfect human life of Jesus was the "corresponding ransom" required by divine justice—no more, no less. A basic principle even of human justice is that the price paid should fit the wrong committed.

    If Jesus, however, were part of a Godhead, the ransom price would have been infinitely higher than what God's own Law required. ( Exodus 21:23-25 ; Leviticus 24:19-21 ) It was only a perfect human, Adam, who sinned in Eden, not God. So the ransom, to be truly in line with God's justice, had to be strictly an equivalent—a perfect human, "the last Adam." Thus, when God sent Jesus to earth as the ransom, he made Jesus to be what would satisfy justice, not an incarnation, not a god-man, but a perfect man, "lower than angels." ( Hebrews 2:9 ; compare Psalm 8:5, 6 .) How could any part of an almighty Godhead—Father, Son, or holy spirit—ever be lower than angels?

    ...

    WHILE Jesus is often called the Son of God in the Bible, nobody in the first century ever thought of him as being God the Son. Even the demons, who "believe there is one God," knew from their experience in the spirit realm that Jesus was not God. So, correctly, they addressed Jesus as the separate "Son of God." ( James 2:19 ; Matthew 8:29 ) And when Jesus died, the pagan Roman soldiers standing by knew enough to say that what they had heard from his followers must be right, not that Jesus was God, but that "certainly this was God's Son."— Matthew 27:54 .

    Hence, the phrase "Son of God" refers to Jesus as a separate created being, not as part of a Trinity. As the Son of God, he could not be God himself, for John 1:18 says: "No one has ever seen God."—RS, Catholic edition.

    The disciples viewed Jesus as the "one mediator between God and men," not as God himself. ( 1 Timothy 2:5 ) Since by definition a mediator is someone separate from those who need mediation, it would be a contradiction for Jesus to be one entity with either of the parties he is trying to reconcile. That would be a pretending to be something he is not.

    The Bible is clear and consistent about the relationship of God to Jesus. Jehovah God alone is Almighty. He created the prehuman Jesus directly. Thus, Jesus had a beginning and could never be coequal with God in power or eternity.

    In this case, the WTS wasn't concerned with who was or wasn't under that mediatorship. They're just trying to argue against the Trinity. But when compared to the official doctrine of the meanings of the words at 1 Timothy, the omission of these crucial facts changes the meanings of the words and how it applies to the reader in this situation.

    This is just a small example of how the WTS plays with words and meanings depending on what they want to try to prove.

    Similarly, just because the WTS never comes right out and says that the non-anointed are not Christians, doesn't mean that the doctrine doesn't indicate that. When the doctrine is dissected, one has to at least question the definition of who is and who isn't Christian, JW style. It's all smoke and mirrors, bait and switch.

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    In either case, we'll never get a straight answer from the organization. The WTS is not an honest organization. They're not going to print, in plain language, what the doctrine really means, because any way they do it, they'll either contradict earlier doctrine, contradict current doctrine and/or alienate thier followers.

    Yes, yes, now I get it. You can't get it. You can't get a straight answer. That's why I was always so confused after a WT study. I was afraid to raise my hand and answer because it was never clearly spelled out. I always thought I was thick and couldn't understand deep spiritual things.

    By the way, if you write to the WTS, you are writing to the service department, and they are the CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. Just don't count on getting any service.

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