Global Warming Hysteria

by metatron 262 Replies latest jw friends

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Quote:

    "And I am not constructing a straw man either because Kyoto is being promoted now and some of its targets are not only dealing with flawed data (ie the hockey stick graph) but biased unsubstantiated conclusions as well, yet they are pressing for implementation within the next 5 years."

    Hmmm, maybe not a strawman; maybe just a poisening-of-the-well type argument: "I'll tell everyone the hockey stick is "flawed", with an air of knowledgeable authority, just like I heard from that preeminent climate researcher Rush Limbaugh"...

    Myth vs. Fact Regarding the "Hockey Stick"

    Filed under:

    — mike @ 5:15 pm

    Numerous myths regarding the so-called "hockey stick" reconstruction of past temperatures, can be found on various non-peer reviewed websites, internet newsgroups and other non-scientific venues. The most widespread of these myths are debunked below:

    MYTH #0: Evidence for modern human influence on climate rests entirely upon the "Hockey Stick" Reconstruction of Northern Hemisphere mean temperatures indicating anomalous late 20th century warmth.

    This peculiar suggestion is sometimes found in op-ed pieces and other dubious propaganda, despite its transparant absurdity. Paleoclimate evidence is simply one in a number of independent lines of evidence indicating the strong likelihood that human influences on climate play a dominant role in the observed 20th century warming of the earth's surface. Perhaps the strongest piece of evidence in support of this conclusion is the evidence from so-called "Detection and Attribution Studies". Such studies demonstrate that the pattern of 20th century climate change closely matches that predicted by state-of-the-art models of the climate system in response to 20th century anthropogenic forcing (due to the combined influence of anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations and industrial aerosol increases).

    MYTH #1: The "Hockey Stick" Reconstruction is based solely on two publications by climate scientist Michael Mann and colleagues (Mann et al, 1998;1999).

    This is patently false. Nearly a dozen model-based and proxy-based reconstructions of Northern Hemisphere mean temperature by different groups all suggest that late 20th century warmth is anomalous in a long-term (multi-century to millennial) context (see Figures 1 and 2 in "Temperature Variations in Past Centuries and The So-Called 'Hockey Stick'").

    Some proxy-based reconstructions suggest greater variability than others. This greater variability may be attributable to different emphases in seasonal and spatial emphasis (see Jones and Mann, 2004; Rutherford et al, 2004; Cook et al, 2004). However, even for those reconstructions which suggest a colder "Little Ice Age" and greater variability in general in past centuries, such as that of Esper et al (2002), late 20th century hemispheric warmth is still found to be anomalous in the context of the reconstruction (see Cook et al, 2004).

    MYTH #2: Regional proxy evidence of warm or anomalous (wet or dry) conditions in past centuries contradicts the conclusion that late 20th century hemispheric mean warmth is anomalous in a long-term (multi-century to millennial) context.

    Such claims reflect a lack of awareness of the distinction between regional and large-scale climate change. Similar such claims were recently made in two articles by astronomer Willie Soon and co-authors (Soon and Baliunas, 2003; Soon et al, 2003). These claims were subsequently rebutted by a group of more than a dozen leading climate scientists in an article in the journal "Eos" of the American Geophysical Union (Mann et al, ‘Eos‘, 2003). The rebuttal raised, among other points, the following two key points:

    (1) In drawing conclusions regarding past regional temperature changes from proxy records, it is essential to assess proxy data for actual sensitivity to past temperature variability. In some cases (Soon and Baliunas, 2003, Soon et al, 2003) a global 'warm anomaly' has been defined for any period during which various regions appear to indicate climate anomalies that can be classified as being either 'warm', 'wet', or 'dry' relative to '20th century' conditions. Such a criterion could be used to define any period of climate as 'warm' or 'cold', and thus cannot meaningfully characterize past large-scale surface temperature changes.

    (2) It is essential to distinguish (e.g. by compositing or otherwise assimilating different proxy information in a consistent manner—e.g., Jones et al., 1998; Mann et al., 1998, 1999; Briffa et al., 2001) between regional temperature changes and changes in global or hemispheric mean temperature. Specific periods of cold and warmth differ from region to region over the globe (see Jones and Mann, 2004), as changes in atmospheric circulation over time exhibit a wave-like character, ensuring that certain regions tend to warm (due, for example, to a southerly flow in the Northern Hemisphere winter mid-latitudes) when other regions cool (due to the corresponding northerly flow that must occur elsewhere). Truly representative estimates of global or hemispheric average temperature must therefore average temperature changes over a sufficiently large number of distinct regions to average out such offsetting regional changes. The specification of a warm period, therefore requires that warm anomalies in different regions should be truly synchronous and not merely required to occur within a very broad interval in time, such as AD 800-1300 (as in Soon et al, 2003; Soon and Baliunas, 2003).

    MYTH #3: The "Hockey Stick" studies claim that the 20th century on the whole is the warmest period of the past 1000 years.

    This is a mis-characterization of the actual scientific conclusions. Numerous studies suggest that hemispheric mean warmth for the late 20th century (that is, the past few decades) appears to exceed the warmth of any comparable length period over the past thousand years or longer, taking into account the uncertainties in the estimates (see Figure 1 in "Temperature Variations in Past Centuries and The So-Called 'Hockey Stick'"). On the other hand, in the context of the long-term reconstructions, the early 20th century appears to have been a relatively cold period while the mid 20th century was comparable in warmth, by most estimates, to peak Medieval warmth (i.e., the so-called "Medieval Warm Period"). It is not the average 20th century warmth, but the magnitude of warming during the 20th century, and the level of warmth observed during the past few decades, which appear to be anomalous in a long-term context. Studies such as those of Soon and associates (Soon and Baliunas, 2003; Soon et al, 2003) that consider only ‘20th century’ conditions, or interpret past temperature changes using evidence incapable of resolving trends in recent decades , cannot meaningfully address the question of whether late 20th century warmth is anomalous in a long-term and large-scale context.

    MYTH #4: Errors in the "Hockey Stick" undermine the conclusion that late 20th century hemispheric warmth is anomalous.

    This statement embraces at least two distinct falsehoods. The first falsehood holds that the "Hockey Stick" is the result of one analysis or the analysis of one group of researchers (i.e., that of Mann et al, 1998 and Mann et al, 1999). However, as discussed in the response to Myth #1 above, the basic conclusions of Mann et al (1998,1999) are affirmed in multiple independent studies. Thus, even if there were errors in the Mann et al (1998) reconstruction, numerous other studies independently support the conclusion of anomalous late 20th century hemispheric-scale warmth.

    The second falsehood holds that there are errors in the Mann et al (1998, 1999) analyses, and that these putative errors compromise the "hockey stick" shape of hemispheric surface temperature reconstructions. Such claims seem to be based in part on the misunderstanding or misrepresentation by some individuals of a corrigendum that was published by Mann and colleagues in Nature. This corrigendum simply corrected the descriptions of supplementary information that accompanied the Mann et al article detailing precisely what data were used. As clearly stated in the corrigendum, these corrections have no influence at all on the actual analysis or any of the results shown in Mann et al (1998). Claims that the corrigendum reflects any errors at all in the Mann et al (1998) reconstruction are entirely false.

    False claims of the existence of errors in the Mann et al (1998) reconstruction can also be traced to spurious allegations made by two individuals, McIntyre and McKitrick (McIntyre works in the mining industry, while McKitrick is an economist). The false claims were first made in an article (McIntyre and McKitrick, 2003) published in a non-scientific (social science) journal "Energy and Environment" and later, in a separate "Communications Arising" comment that was rejected by Nature based on negative appraisals by reviewers and editor [as a side note, we find it peculiar that the authors have argued elsewhere that their submission was rejected due to 'lack of space'. Nature makes their policy on such submissions quite clear: "The Brief Communications editor will decide how to proceed on the basis of whether the central conclusion of the earlier paper is brought into question; of the length of time since the original publication; and of whether a comment or exchange of views is likely to seem of interest to nonspecialist readers. Because Nature receives so many comments, those that do not meet these criteria are referred to the specialist literature." Since Nature chose to send the comment out for review in the first place, the "time since the original publication" was clearly not deemed a problematic factor. One is logically left to conclude that the grounds for rejection were the deficiencies in the authors' arguments explicitly noted by the reviewers]. The rejected criticism has nonetheless been posted on the internet by the authors, and promoted in certain other non-peer-reviewed venues (see this nice discussion by science journalist David Appell of a scurrilous parroting of their claims by Richard Muller in an on-line opinion piece).

    The claims of McIntyre and McKitrick, which hold that the "Hockey-Stick" shape of the MBH98 reconstruction is an artifact of the use of series with infilled data and the convention by which certain networks of proxy data were represented in a Principal Components Analysis ("PCA"), are readily seen to be false , as detailed in a response by Mann and colleagues to their rejected Nature criticism demonstrating that (1) the Mann et al (1998) reconstruction is robust with respect to the elimination of any data that were infilled in the original analysis, (2) the main features of the Mann et al (1998) reconstruction are entirely insensitive to whether or not proxy data networks are represented by PCA, (3) the putative ‘correction’ by McIntyre and McKitrick, which argues for anomalous 15th century warmth (in contradiction to all other known reconstructions), is an artifact of the censoring by the authors of key proxy data in the original Mann et al (1998) dataset, and finally, (4) Unlike the original Mann et al (1998) reconstruction, the so-called ‘correction’ by McIntyre and McKitrick fails statistical verification exercises, rendering it statistically meaningless and unworthy of discussion in the legitimate scientific literature.

    The claims of McIntyre and McKitrick have now been further discredited in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, in a paper to appear in the American Meteorological Society journal, "Journal of Climate" by Rutherford and colleagues (2004) [and by yet another paper by an independent set of authors that is currently "under review" and thus cannot yet be cited--more on this soon!]. Rutherford et al (2004) demonstrate nearly identical results to those of MBH98, using the same proxy dataset as Mann et al (1998) but addressing the issues of infilled/missing data raised by Mcintyre and McKitrick, and using an alternative climate field reconstruction (CFR) methodology that does not represent any proxy data networks by PCA at all.

    References:

    Cook, E.R., J. Esper, and R.D. D'Arrigo, Extra-tropical Northern Hemisphere land temperature variability over the past 1000 years, Quat. Sci. Rev., 23, 2063-2074, 2004.

    Crowley, T.J., and T. Lowery, How Warm Was the Medieval Warm Period?, Ambio, 29, 51-54, 2000.

    Esper, J., E.R. Cook and F.H. Schweingruber, Low-frequency signals in long tree-line chronologies for reconstructing past temperature variability, Science, 295, 2250-2253, 2002.

    Jones, P.D., K.R. Briffa, T.P. Barnett and S.F.B. Tett, High-resolution palaeoclimatic records for the last millennium: Integration, interpretation and comparison with General Circulation Model control run temperatures, Holocene, 8, 455-471, 1998.

    Jones, P.D., Mann, M.E., Climate Over Past Millennia, Reviews of Geophysics, 42, RG2002, doi: 10.1029/2003RG000143, 2004.

    Mann, M.E., R.S. Bradley, and M.K. Hughes, Global-scale temperature patterns and climate forcing over the past six centuries, Nature, 392, 779-787, 1998.

    Mann, M.E., R.S. Bradley, and M.K. Hughes, Northern Hemisphere Temperatures During the Past Millennium: Inferences, Uncertainties, and Limitations, Geophysical Research Letters, 26, 759-762,
    1999.

    Mann, M.E., Ammann, C.M., Bradley, R.S., Briffa, K.R., Crowley, T.J., Hughes, M.K., Jones, P.D., Oppenheimer, M., Osborn, T.J., Overpeck, J.T., Rutherford, S., Trenberth, K.E., Wigley, T.M.L., On Past Temperatures and Anomalous Late 20th Century Warmth, Eos, 84, 256-258, 2003.

    Rutherford, S., Mann, M.E., Osborn, T.J., Bradley, R.S., Briffa, K.R., Hughes, M.K., Jones, P.D., Proxy-based Northern Hemisphere Surface Temperature Reconstructions: Sensitivity to Methodology, Predictor Network, Target Season and Target Domain, Journal of Climate, in press, 2004.

    Soon, W., and S. Baliunas, Proxy climatic and environmental changes over the past 1000 years, Climate Research, 23, 89-110, 2003.

    Soon, W., S. Baliunas, C, Idso, S. Idso and D.R. Legates, Reconstructing climatic and environmental changes of the past 1000 years, Energy and Environment, 14, 233-296, 2003.

    5 blog reactions

  • Warlock
  • 5go
    5go

    After reading everone's post finally I will get off and let you guys and answer abaddon.

    keep posting !

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    This may be an appropriate time to drag this skeleton out of the closet. During the first part of the 20th century, american cities were moving along towards more public transport. General motors quicly saw this as an opportunity for, first buses, then phase those out, and in w the cars. It moved in this direction by, among other ploys, aquiring the land on which public trolleys were running.

    ---

    Taken for a Ride - How General Motors (GM) Conspired to Destroy Rail Trolley Systems

    Excerpts from the Film by Jim Klein and Martha Olson

    "Taken for a Ride"

    The Pacific Electric Railway served the Los Angeles basin with trolley
    service through World War II. In 1950, it abandoned most of its lines. The
    "Red Cars" were junked, stacked and left to rot. Similarly, General Motors
    targeted over 100 other U.S. cities through its front company, National City Lines.

    This is a story about how things got the way they are. Why sitting in
    traffic seems natural. Why our public transportation is the worst in the
    industrialized world. And why superhighways cut right through the hearts
    of our cities.

    Narrator: When you're talking about public transportation in America, for
    the first part of this century, you're talking about streetcars. Trolleys
    ran on most major avenues every few minutes. Steel track and quiet
    electric motors made the ride smooth and clean and comfortable. The center of the road was reserved for streetcars, and the new automobiles had to
    move out of the way.

    Bradford Snell, who has made a career researching the auto industry for 16
    years: In 1922, only one American in ten owned an automobile. (Everyone
    else used rail.) At that time Alfred P. Sloan (President, General Motors)
    said, 'Wait a minute, this is a great opportunity. We've got 90 percent of
    the market out there that we can somehow turn into automobile users. If we
    can eliminate the rail alternatives, we will create a new market for our
    cars. And if we don't, then General Motors' sales are just going to remain
    level.'

    They had to get rid of the streetcars. They wanted the space that the
    streetcars used for automobiles. They had to find something they could put
    in place of the streetcar. Sloan had the idea that he wanted to somehow
    motorize all the major cities in the country. That meant replacing all the
    street railways with buses—ultimately thinking that no one would want to
    ride the buses and therefore they would buy General Motors automobiles.
    Sloan wanted to get in very big in this field. What he bought was
    phenomenal: the largest bus-operating company in the country and the
    largest bus-production company. And using that as a foothold, GM moved
    into Manhattan. They acquired interests in the New York railways and
    between 1926 and '36 they methodically destroyed the rails.

    When they finally motorized New York, General Motors issued ads throughout
    the country. And this is important, because they are trying to show that
    motorization is the wave of the future. They issued these ads and they
    said, `The motorization of 4th and Madison is the most important event in
    the history of community transportation.'

    Narrator: In the mid-1930s, GM worked hard to create the impression of a
    nationwide trend away from rail. But there was no trend.
    Buses were a tough sell. They jolted. They smelled. They inched through
    traffic. City by city, it took the hidden hand of General Motors to
    replace streetcars with Yellow Coach buses.

    In 1936, a company was founded that would grow to dominate American city
    transportation. National City Lines had no visible connection to General
    Motors. In fact, the director of operations came from a GM subsidiary,
    Yellow Coach, and members of the Board of Directors came from Greyhound,
    which was founded and controlled by General Motors.
    The money to start this new company also came from Greyhound and Yellow
    Coach. To hide these connections the company needed a front man.
    Roy Fitzgerald got his start in Northern Minnesota where he hauled miners
    and school children in a couple of buses. General Motors would groom him
    to become president of National City Lines.

    Over the next few years, Standard Oil of California, Mack Truck, Phillips
    Petroleum and Firestone Tire would join GM in backing this venture.
    The Plot Thickens...
    Jim Holzer, L.A. railway worker: All of a sudden you get these fellows
    with fedora hats, the spats—I'm not making that up—the two-toned shoes,
    the broad ties, the black shirts, the white Panamas. All of a sudden they
    show up and of course the word goes out: `Hey, we're being bought.'
    Business Week (voice over): Fitzgerald, big name in buses. National City
    now in top place as operator of city route miles. Prime mover is E. Roy
    Fitzgerald, who describes himself as one of five farm boys trying to run a
    few buses.

    Holzer: The Fitzgeralds came in here just like they did in every city they
    ever went to. They destroyed an established public-transit system that had
    been built to meet the needs of the people.
    Former Streetcar Rider #1: Those streetcars, we loved riding in them. It
    was fun because it was big, you know; there was plenty of room and all
    that.

    Rider #2: We'd catch them at the same time every day. We'd know the same
    conductor and you'd meet people that you'd see every day. And you weren't
    afraid to talk to someone.

    Rider #3: The streetcar was fast. It just jumped—the cars like that—it was
    so fast. And then the conductor, every time he would come to a crossing,
    he would go `clang, clang, clang, clang, clang.'

    Rider #4: That was the best form of transportation. Then somebody had the
    bright idea to take up all the tracks and get rid of all the trolleys.
    That's when the headaches started.

    Interviewer: Weren't those streetcars making money in Los Angeles?
    Barney Larrick, Fitzgeralds' operations manager: Well, after I got done
    chopping their heads off we made money. Cut the miles down. Sell off the
    properties. Pull the company down.
    Holzer: They don't take the service out, they just cut it back. They'll
    take and cut it from 10 minutes to 12 minutes, from 12 to 15, from 15 to
    20, from 20 to 30. So they reduce the service.

    And every time you reduce the service you make it less attractive. And the
    less attractive the fewer riders. And then they say, `Well see, we can't
    make any money.' So they abandon it.

    Narrator: National City Lines grew quickly. By 1946 it controlled
    public-transit systems in over 83 cities. From Baltimore to St. Louis,
    Salt Lake City to L.A., two buses in Eveleth, Minnesota, had grown into an
    empire.

    Snell: The appearance was always that this was only a company that was
    owned by the Fitzgeralds. You know, these people had come from Minnesota
    with no money at all, and all of a sudden they were in control of this
    multi-million-dollar enterprise.

    But, in fact, the money was coming from the corporate sponsors.
    Quinby Memo (voice over): To the Mayor, to the City Manager, to the City
    Transit Engineer, and to the taxpayers and the riding citizens of your
    city. You are entitled to this warning: There is a carefully, deliberately
    planned campaign to swindle you out of your electric railway system...
    Narrator: Edwin Quinby was a rail buff with a talent for financial
    sleuthing. In 1946, he mailed a warning to influential people in hundreds
    of cities across the country. His 33-page broadside was filled with
    surprisingly detailed research. It brought to light what GM had worked
    hard to hide.

    Edwin Quinby (voice over): The plan is to destroy public utilities, which
    you'll find impractical to replace after you discover your mistake. Who
    are the corporations behind this? Why are they permitted to destroy
    valuable electric railways?

    Mass Transportation Magazine (voice over): Queer Case of Quinby, by Ross
    Schram. Edwin J. Quinby took full advantage of the great American
    privilege of the free press to feed the lunatic fringe of radicals and
    crackpots springing up like weeds in the United States today. The
    document, printed on cheap paper, is natural fertilizer for suspicions,
    for disunity. What is the Quinby pattern? Was he used by some strange
    political influence?

    Narrator: Edwin Quinby's efforts did not stop National City Lines, but the
    cat was out of the bag. In 1946, the Justice Department began an antitrust
    investigation into National City Lines, General Motors and the other
    investors.

    Justice Memo (voice over): Memorandum to the United States Attorney
    General: It appears that National City Lines and its manufacturing
    associates have entered into a plan to secure control over local
    transportation in important cities throughout the United States. If these
    companies are permitted to continue their program, they will soon have a
    stranglehold over the industry.

    Snell: The key lawyers involved in the case told me there was not a
    scintilla of doubt that these defendants, General Motors and the others,
    had set out to destroy the streetcar system.

    But since there was no antitrust law on the books at that point saying,
    `Thou shalt not destroy streetcar systems,' the best way, the only way
    they could get them on a violation was to proceed along the criminal
    antitrust, conspiracy route. And that's what they did.

    Narrator: The government's case was straight forward. National City Lines,
    General Motors and the other defendants were found guilty of conspiracy to
    monopolize the local transportation field.

    Snell: These companies, that had probably eliminated systems that in order
    to reconstitute today would require maybe $300 billion, these companies
    were individually fined $5,000.

    And the individuals involved—like the treasurer of General Motors who had
    actively run Pacific City Lines, one of the subsidiaries, and was a major
    moving factor in all of National City Lines' operations—he was fined the
    magnanimous sum of $1 at the conclusion of the trial.

    Narrator: The Justice Department would spend the next 25 years trying to
    limit GM's influence on transportation. It would begin three major
    investigations into monopoly practices: two were settled out of court; one
    was eventually dropped. An effective way to rein in GM was never found.
    "Taken for a Ride," a 55-minute film was shown on PBS in August 1996 and
    is available (rent: $55; sale: $90) from New Day Films, 314 Dayton St.
    #207, Yellow Springs, OH 45387; (513) 767-9357.

    Culture Change/Sustainable Energy Institute mailing address: P.O. Box
    4347, Arcata, California 95518 USA
    Tel. (707) 826-7775 FAX (603) 825-2696
    Web: http://www.culturechange.org

    ------

    S

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Brother Apostate,

    = Translation of above: hillary_step is a child who knows everything, why won’t you play by hillary_step's rules? Mommy, they won’t play by my rules, waaaaaaa!!!

    lol....I presume that this is the product of your own mind and that you needed no help to compile this gibbering trash?

    Face it BA, you are all washed up but you can't get clean.

    HS

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Chris,

    HS, I've disagreed with you and I know you've disagreed with me back in the day (most likely a couple of years ago in admin!) but one thing I have always appreciated about you is that you do not make it a personal issue. I see this on this board as well as in other parts of life. As I say, I don't think this is an especially ex-JW behavior, perhaps it's more of where our society has evolved. I don't know. Perhaps it's the reverse that is true, that ex-Witnesses are more inclined (whether through experience or their own personal issues) to engage in a winner-take-all fight that somehow, magically, "proves" they are right and somehow a better person, et al.

    I am sure you are correct about this and that I am wrong. I am not terribly good at this 'people' thing these days, but I do notice a tendency to commit too quickly in many recently exited XJW's. Perhaps Global Warring is the antidote to Sunday Watchtower Study's. I look at those I consider friends, like yourself, Six, Outlaw etc, now long exited and see a dimension that seems to be missing in others. Despite holding often contrary views, the enraged spittle does not cloud the vision....lol

    My days of believing in the brotherhood of man are long since over, though I do miss the sentiment of it all. Most people I find, present company excepted of course, are tedious rag-bags full of other peoples dreams. But then I am fifty-five and cynically lurching toward my tomb like an Irishman at closing time.

    Send me your email address Chris, I have something for you.

    Best regards - HS

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Frank,

    Global Warming is the issue of the day that effects us all, it is a natural cycle taking place which we will just have to learn to survive as best as we can and that man's input into the problem is far less than is being touted in some quarters. On a geologic timescale, which takes place over hundreds of thousands of years, what is happening is not unusual, though even the little that mankind is contributing to the problem is not helping the situation.

    First part is partly true (but there are many more serious issues than this issue which amounts to a tempest in a tea pot) although that idea that "natural cycles" are backed up by science is very unpopular with fundy's who believe that God placed us here on the perfect earth 6000 years ago.

    I am having trouble deciphering from your comments what is 'partly true' and what is not in my statement, which obviously I believe is all true.

    Can you help.

    Cheers - HS

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Most people I find, present company excepted of course, are tedious rag-bags full of other peoples dreams. But then I am fifty-five and cynically lurching toward my tomb like an Irishman at closing time.

    Edging toward curmudgeon territory, eh?

    Well I'm begining to sympathize. I've started to need reading glasses.

    I want to go on record as stating my opinion that this getting old business is not fair. I'm thinking of not only complaining, I'm also thinking of writing a letter.

    Chris

  • AllAlongTheWatchtower
    AllAlongTheWatchtower

    "In fact water vapour is one of the largest components of Greenhouse gas at 30%. If we are contributing to that percentage then the cry should be against taking hot showers, wave pulls at water parks or those water misiting systems at outdoor malls in the summer time! Can you see the protests now!" - Frank75

    I've known that for a long time, and often wondered over the years how environmentalists think (if, indeed they dwell on the matter) that would effect the environment if hydrogen fuel cell powered cars were to become a reality. One of the things people in favor of them say with great zeal is "they don't put off ANY pollutants, just water vapor".

  • Frank75
    Frank75

    6OF9:

    Again I will refer to the Defreitas paper that is not critical of global warming but rather the agenda and error ridden IPCC report and the misuse of data by Mann et al in the famous Hockey Stick Graph.

    The Hockey stick graph uses tree ring data for 900 years and then switches to modern instrumental temperature measurements. What planet are you from to think that this is in any way defensible let alone scientific? The very premise in and of itself is totally skewed.

    The IPCC 2001 Report has made much of one of the many reconstructions of global temperatures over the past 1000 years using proxy climate data by prominently featuring it in its Summary for Policymakers (IPCC, 2001b). The reconstruction (Fig. 16) is based on the work of Mann et al. (1998, 1999). Figure 16 shows that from about 1000 A.D. to about 1900 there is a slight 900-year cooling. Starting at around 1900 surface temperature data taken from the IPCC instrumental record are tacked on to the proxy data, which shows temperature rising abruptly. The resulting graph resembles a hockey stick.

    Is it any wonder that the last 100 years show an upward trend? Mann goes from tree rings extrapolations at high altitude then starting in the last 100 years of the study goes to temperature data collected from Urban centers.

    The handle of the ‘hockey stick’ shows a mean trend of little or no change for 900 years, disregarding the existence of the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. The blade of the stick provides a dramatic warming in the Twentieth century. The ‘hockey stick’ curve challenges the existence of the Medieval Warm Period and subsequent Little Ice Age, which followed the Roman Warm Period and Dark Ages Cold Period (McDermott et al., 2001), and have long been considered to be classic examples of the warm and cold phases of a millennialscale climate oscillation that occurred throughout glacial and interglacial periods (Oppo et al., 1998; McManus et al., 1999), as well as across the early Pleistocene (Raymo et al., 1998). The interpretation by Mann et al. (1999) implies that the recent warming is anomalous and thus must be linked to increases in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
    The ‘hockey stick’ is a compelling image when first seen, and the IPCC 2001 report goes to some lengths to promote it by including it among the few diagrams presented in the Summary for Policymakers (SPM). And, nowhere in the SPM will one discover warnings on interpreting the graph. The IPCC has been severely criticized for this, for four reasons. First, the ‘hockey stick’ adds 100 years of oranges onto 900 years of apples. The Mann et al. (1999) 900-year run of data for the handle of the ‘hockey stick’ is mostly tree ring proxies from high altitudes or high latitudes, and their 100-year blade is full-year thermometer measurements from climate stations. These thermometers are recording mainly Northern Hemisphere urban-influenced warming, which is mostly in winter and in early spring.

    Are Tree ring temperature readings even accurate? And what is the possible reason why a scientist would not compile his data exclusively from the same source? i.e. Tree ring data?

    Because tree ring data from 1940 until now shows no substantial warming!

    He also stops at 1980 with his other data source, why? Because Mann was selecting his data to prove a hypothesis. The whole 6of9 defense thing reads like the Apendix on 607BCE in the Kingdom Come Book!

    Tree rings are not necessarily reliable indicators of annual mean temperature as they are primarily responses to growth in the spring and early summer, so indicate temperatures for this time of year. Tree rings are also highly dependent on soil moisture availability in the growing season and solar variability that affects photosynthesis and thus growth rates of trees. The work by Mann et al. (1999) would have been more convincing if it had contrasted 900 years of tree ring proxies with like proxies for the past 100 years — i.e. apples plus apples. But even here, it is not safe to assume tree rings will provide a homogeneous record because of recent CO 2 fertilization.
    ... Third, tree rings and other proxies show substantial warming from about 1850 to 1940, but not since. The curve presented by Mann et al. (Fig. 16) shows proxy records only until 1980, with no temperature greater than in 1940, but does not show data since 1980, which show no warming.

    The little ice age and prior medieval warming periods are not something under dispute by climatologists in general, however Mann's tree ring temperature graph does not show either period!

    Fourth, the Mann curve fails to show several well-known climate events, namely, the Medieval Warm period (from about 800–1200 A.D.) followed by the Little Ice Age. Mann et al. (1999) claim that those events were not global, but rather regional temperature changes.

    Mann says that the little ice age was a Northern European event and so is lacking from the tree rings he collected! That is interesting. People would rely on a scientist who collected historical data from petrified cricket legs that did not verify WW1 and WW2! Give me a break!

    However the author of the Dr Defreitas paper quoted here, himself an inhabitant of the Southern hemisphere cites a number of studies that show the two periods in dispute by Mann are generally accepted to have been global.

    Wilson et al. (1979) provide data for far off New Zealand which, being located in the Southern Hemisphere, is meteorologically unrelated to Europe. Using 18 O/ 16 O dating profiles through a stalagmite, they found “the temperature curve for New Zealand to be broadly similar to England and such climatic fluctuations as the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age are not just a local European phenomenon” (Wilson et al., 1979, p. 316). Tyson et al. (2000) gathered similar data from a stalagmite from Cold Air Cave, located 30 km southwest of Pietersburg, South Africa. Broecker (2001) cites several highquality data sets as evidence to prove that the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age are a global phenomenon. Calkin et al. (2001) reviewed detailed research of Holocene glaciation along the northernmost Gulf of Alaska between the Kenai Peninsula and Yakutat Bay. They found that there is clear evidence of the existence of a Medieval Warm Period and a Little Ice Age in Alaska. Glaciers there reached their maximum Holocene extensions during the Little Ice Age. Given that Alaskan temperatures reached their Holocene minimum during Little Ice Age, from this time to the present, temperatures have been rising in a natural recovery from the coldest period of the Holocene.

    A great deal of recent research has demonstrated that the Little Ice Age was evident even in Australia and reaffirms that it really did happen on a global scale. For example, work by Hendy et al. (2002) and Linsley et al. (2000) shows largely synchronous temperature trends of the South Pacific Ocean over the past 400 years support the view that the Little Ice Age was a truly global phenomenon and not a minor regional anomaly of lands in the vicinity of the North Atlantic Ocean. In addition, the data of Hendy et al. (2002) and Linsley et al. (2000) show temperatures in the South Pacific during the mid-18th century as being as warm as, or even armer than, the present day. This is in contrast to the ‘hockey stick’ temperature history of Mann et al. (1999), which portrays the last two decades of the 20th century as the warmest of the past millennium. Other supporting evidence from around the world is provided by Le Roy Ladurie (1971), MacCracken et al. (1990), Grove and Switsur (1994), Leavitt (1994), Luckman (1994), Villalba (1994), Zhang (1994), Huffman (1996), Keigwin (1996a, 1996b), Huang et al. (1997), Dahl-Jensen et al. (1998), Cioccale (1999), de Menocal et al. (2000), Hong et al. (2000), Naurzbaev and Vaganov (2000), Winter et al. (2000), Verschuren at al. (2000), Broecker (2001), Haug et al. (2001), Holmgren et al. (2001), Johnson et al. (2001), Nicholson and Yin (2001) and Schilman et al. (2001).

    What boggles my mind and should boggle yours or at least get you to question the source of your information, is that the most relevant period is the last 30-40 years. During that time (since 79 at least) we have had satellites in the air that have been mapping global temperatures in different altitudes of our atmosphere globally and without prejudice.

    Why does the IPCC not include that relevant data in its report? What does the data show?

    Since 1979 temperature measurements of the lower troposphere have been made by Tiros-N satellites using microwave radiometry (Microwave Sounding Units - MSU). These are the only precision measurements of global temperature available for direct comparison with temperature predictions from GCMs. The satellites cover the whole earth, measuring and averaging the temperature of the lower troposphere. This is the same region modelled by the GCMs. The accuracy of the radiometer measurements is 0.1 °C, which is considerably better than the accuracy of thermometer measurements made on the surface of the earth.
    The satellite (MSU) temperature data set is the only one that is truly global, highly accurate, and uses a completely homogeneous measurement over the entire planet (Spencer and Christy, 1992; Christy and Goodridge, 1995).
    It also measures the part of the lower atmosphere that, according to the climate models, should be experiencing the greatest warming due to the enhanced greenhouse effect (Bengtsson et al., 1999). But satellite data since 1979 show no significant warming trend (Fig. 10). The IPCC play down the importance of these data because they do not show the recent warming trend suggested by the surface temperature record. Clearly, output from GCMs does not apply to surface temperature changes, and can only be checked by data from the troposphere. The IPCC has been testing its models on the wrong temperature record.

    The whole thing reads like Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    Anyway, people will believe what they want to believe. I grow tired of the topic as we seem to keep covering the same ground.

    Perhaps Abaddon will have some enlightenment for us/me

    Frank75

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