LOL - totally. someone once posted a schedule on here for what joe publisher's life would be like if he even came close to living up to all the JW requirements and expectations. It was quite eye-opening. Not even time for a quick trip to the lou. Now I know why my pioneer roommate used to lie about her service time.
Long Time Current Bethelite's Take On the Young, New Gov. Body Members
by Seeker4 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jgnat
Onacruse, I respectfully disagree. I am aware that the sacrifices required of the regular witness attracts and hold the martyrs. There is no doubt that the greater burden placed on the Witness holds them in. After all, to lay down that burden would prove him a fool. So he carries it, claiming to the "world" that it is light.
BUT there is plenty of historical precedent that laying FURTHER burden on the burdened collapses the whole house of cards.
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greendawn
I suppose they have to remain hard liners because if they loosen up the tight control over the membership (suppression of freedom of speech, shunning of ex members etc) they will lose most of them since they will not be able to justify so many of their doctrines that will come under fire. On the other hand they have so much flexibility of action with the new light doctrine they could if they wanted change a lot of their more extreme ideas without losing their status.
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ozziepost
The Bethelite brother-in-law, who is quite perceptive and intelligent said, no, it was actually just the opposite. These young GB members are actually MORE hardline and old school than some of the older GB members. He said not to expect any changes for the better from this group of brothers.
Interesting. Compare that with the situation of King Rehoboam and his yound advisers. It's in 1 Kings 12:6-11.
Fascinating, eh? Things don't change, do they?
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onacruse
g'morning, jgnat.
BUT there is plenty of historical precedent that laying FURTHER burden on the burdened collapses the whole house of cards.
Yes, this is perhaps historically true within the framework of economic and political systems (social constructs that affect our everyday subsistence); but religious systems, appealing as they do to another aspect of the human psyche, show a remarkable, even contradictory, ability to maintain themselves. Consider Catholic and all major Protestant movements; virtually every one of them remain to this day, despite the tremendous burdens of compliance that they engendered, and in some cases still do engender, upon their followers. Thus my quote, referenced above.
There has always been, and by precedent always will be, a certain percentage of the human population that gravitates toward such high-control groups, and the WTS will have a willing, AND EVEN ENTHUSIASTIC, audience for generations to come.
That being said, I'd be very interested in your providing just one example of what you asserted (within the framework of what I just outlined). The 10-tribe split isn't, imho, relevant, because it was a political move "masked" by religious overtones.
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proplog2
The "latter day saints" (New Annointed) are suffering from serious psychotic episodes.
The Old Annointed came in pre-1935 when "everyone" pretty much felt they were of the 144,000. There was nothing special about it. It was normal. Words didn't have to miraculously pop off the pages. Everybody was annointed.
But anyone who has concluded that they are "annointed" NOW probably have had some kind of mental illness. Being "chosen" may have given them the power to overcome their hidden masturbation struggles. Or maybe they felt alienated because they weren't alpha males and their imaginary "special calling" removes some of that pain.
I knew a sister that had troubles quitting smoking for years. Suddenly she quit smoking because she received the "annointing". The mind is tricky.
So, what do you think people with such delusions are going to do? They are going to maintain their "specialness" at all costs.
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minimus
Lawsuits and $$$$$ will be the only thing to change the Watchtower (as Metatron says).
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jgnat
Ha! Most of the religious splits were political with religous overtones. I'd say EVERY denominational split was an attempt to "fix" an overburden. the Catholic Church may still be around, but it's original power structure is essentially destroyed (in developed countries).
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onacruse
jgnat:
Ha! Most of the religious splits were political with religous overtones.
Yes, indeed! And vice versa. If anything the WTS has ever said about the "world," perhaps the most accurate is that the "world" is a combination of the interplay and cross-balancing between the religious, political and commercial systems (the "combine"). But this combine is, as sociologists like Max Weber have delineated, simply a reflection of human nature, rather than a construct in their own right.
I'd say EVERY denominational split was an attempt to "fix" an overburden.
And thus also the numerous 'offspring' of the WTS...but the WTS, the "parent religious organization," is still around, and going strong...though not as strong as in the 50s. But even here, we see a cycle: The Bible Students split off, the WTS diminishes for a short time, and comes back strong. Then the defection of the late 20s, and the WTS diminishes for a short time, and comes back strong in the 50s. Then the defection of the early 80s, and the WTS comes back strong. Then, almost like an acquiescence of the human soul, the 1995 issue is brushed off like water on a duck's back...but the WTS is still going strong.
the Catholic Church may still be around, but it's original power structure is essentially destroyed (in developed countries).
Is it? I've never seen any definitive evaluation of this. Now I will certainly grant that its influence has changed over the last century, but its 'membership' has not been overwhelmingly diminished. Its allegiances? Its draw? Jim Whitney, a man who I respect for his intelligence and experience, has been kind enough to elucidate his own experiences in this regard. "Religion" has a uniquely appealing aspect, an appeal that cuts to the core in a way that the 'other two legs' of the 'combine' do not. And, insofar as the suggestion that lawsuits and dollars will force the WTS to change: The WTS has survived many lawsuits, including the imprisonment of all their leadership (a point, of course, about which they make much noise, and consider to be a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy). And the dollars are apparently still rolling in aplenty, notwithstanding speculations to the contrary.
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jgnat
I still maintain that the WTS's vitality is diminishing. The succeeding generations have not managed to maintain the vitality of the old. These new men remind me very much of the third generation brothers of the Eaton's empire, now gone.
Sects DO disappear. The Quakers are just about done. I wouldn't put the WTBTS on the same level as the Catholic church for longevity and staying power.
As for the Catholic church, I would agree insofar as their membership is still very impressive. But they are nothing like the powerhouse that Rutherford took pot-shots at. Back then, they WERE a political force to be reckoned with. There was some rationale for naming them "Babylon the Great", but no more. In the third world, they may still hold sway over governments. I've talked to my African son-in-law about this. Interestingly, it is in these countries that we see continued growth of the Witnesses.