How many Christians were there in the 1st century?

by yaddayadda 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    Ninja,

    I looked up Acts 21:20 in four translations other than the New World Translation and they all used the nomber 1000's also. Must be a fairly common way to translate. I don't know how or where to find a correct estimation of the number of Christians in the first century, but I find it hard to believe that the literal number of 144,000 would not have been filled at that time.

    The articles posted from the Watchtower are interesting, as they take the number way past 144,000. You think they would consider this before printing such information. It wouldn't surprise me if they had to dump the literal meaning of 144,000 for the heavenly priests and kings after dumping the 1935 date as the time when this class was officially chosen and then sealed.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Blues Brother....Yes, it says in Acts 2:41 that there were over 3,000 Christians in Jerusalem in c. AD 33, and in 4:4 the number has increased to 5,000 sometime between AD 33-36, and then there were "tens of thousands" of Jews who converted to Christianity in Jerusalem in c. AD 58 (21:20). The problem is that the population of Jerusalem in the first century AD was only about 20,000-40,000 persons (swelling over a hundred thousand only during Passover), so the rate of increase indicated in Acts would suggest that Jerusalem would have become a Christian city by the time it was destroyed in AD 70, and this was not the case. So the figures are treated as demographic exaggerations like many other questionable figures in the OT, contemporary Greco-Roman writings, and even in Josephus (cf. the similar exaggeration that Christianity had already spread to "all creation to the ends of the earth" in Romans 1:5-8, 10:16-18, 1 Thessalonians 1:8, Colossians 1:5, 23). Moreover, there are more solid figures for the third century which shows that it was then that the Christian population increased from 200,000 to over 6 million in the Roman Empire, at a rate of about 40% per decade, and the same rate retrojected back in the second and first centuries would yield about 7,500 Christians in the year 100. Of course, one would not necessarily expect a uniform rate, so such a figure should probably be treated with a grain of salt, and it's all guesswork anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that a good number of scholars estimate a much lower population than the "conservative" estimate indicated here. Compare also Origen, Contra Celsum, 3.10: "It is obvious that in the beginning Christians were small in number". Population estimates also take into account other factors like city size, residency patterns, food production, and social structure of house churches. See more in the Hopkins paper, or the paper "The Population of Western Palestine in the Roman-Byzantine Period" by M. Broshi in BASOR, 1979.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Such small numbers don't fit in well with the whole picture, would the Roman emperors bother to persecute so fiercely a group of 6 000 Christians spread all over their vast empire? And even some of these 6 000 would be outside it in Persia, India, Arabia.

  • undercover
    undercover

    At what point does the WTS say that the "apostacy" took place? And how many Christians existed at that time?

    I would guess that the WTS would surmise that so-called Christians that existed anywhere around the "apostacy" time period would not count in the 144,000.

    The information is so vague that an apologist can create any number of theories to show why the 144,000 was not filled in the early days.

    What's more interesting to me is that the WTS has stated that God's Organization has existed, in some form or another, on earth since the first century. If that's the case, then how is it that in 2000 some odd years, the number of anointed hasn't been filled? 144,000 divided by 2000 equals 72. That means an average of 72 people a year are picked to be in this new covenant. Subtract the number of those who started partaking in the 30s and the average number drops drastically. Subtract the 3,000 and 5,000 that partook in the very early days and it drops some more. (I don't have the figures for the partakers of the 30s). Somehow between the original 3,000 and the many thousand in the 30s, not too many were added during the other 2000 years. It just doesn't work mathmatically speaking.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    You are all posters after my own heart,now this is how a EXJW forum is supposed to go

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Undercover, that is the presumption of the WTS 1 900 years of Christian existence failed to provide a total of 144 000 saints and they, a half baked religion managed to provide 50 000 or so in a mere 100 years. The number of the saints from 33 AD until now must be in the millions and the GB are certainly not part of them.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Such small numbers don't fit in well with the whole picture, would the Roman emperors bother to persecute so fiercely a group of 6 000 Christians spread all over their vast empire? And even some of these 6000 would be outside it in Persia, India, Arabia.

    I think 7,500 for AD 100 is probably too small, Hopkins suggests something closer to 15,000 and I think even 20,000 for the overall movement is not unlikely. I suspect the rate of increase was higher early on when the numbers were small and then shrank to 40% per decade as time wore on; similarly, the rate of increase of JWs were much higher in the 1930s and 1940s when the movement was still fairly small and then the rate dropped at the same time that the JWs became a major movement. Moreover, the 40% figure for the third century was already depressed by the number of Christians martyred in the great third century persecutions.

    I think your characterization of the persecutions is a little anachronistic. Nero's persecution was limited to the city of Rome which, as the capital of the empire, likely had the largest concentration of Christians outside of Jerusalem, so he easily would have had access to hundreds if not a thousand Christians or more. The next major persecution under Trajan was another local event, limited largely to Pliny's oversight in Asia Minor. The historicity of a persecution under Domitian is under considerable doubt, and there certainly is no valid authority for the 40,000 figure that is sometimes mentioned by some modern authors. Rather, the great persecutions occurred in the third century AD when the Christian population swelled into the millions.

  • yaddayadda
    yaddayadda

    Thank you very much for the replies, particularly Leolaia's comments.

    Although the evidence is rather inconclusive, it seems safe to say that Tom Cabeen's statement is way off the mark.

    Nevertheless, from all accounts it seems very hard to imagine the 144k number not having been filled up a long time ago. This would especially seem to be the case given that 99% or so of the many thousands of 'anointed' Bible Students/JW's (aged around say 20 upward) alive in 1935 must all be dead by now.

    On this point, Greendawn said:" Undercover, that is the presumption of the WTS 1 900 years of Christian existence failed to provide a total of 144 000 saints and they, a half baked religion managed to provide 50 000 or so in a mere 100 years..."

    Greendawn, is your estimate of 50,000 reliable or is it a speculative guess?

    Can anyone tell us: 1 - How many Bible Students likely died between, say, 1879 and 1935; and 2 - how many adult JW's were alive around the early 1930's (when a large number still professed to be of the 'heavenly calling'.)

    Thanks

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    JeanV,

    While you and I will definitely not agree with all of the conclusions in the book "Liberating the Gospels" by John Shelby Spong (ISBN 0-06-067534-9), nevertheless his description in chapter 3 ("How these Jewish books became Gentile captives") shows very much the dynamic of the time around the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

    He makes an interesting observation on page 46: "Prior to this fateful year 70, Judaism had been able to tolerate varieties of opinions within its household of faith. Pluralism is always a byproduct of security. But when the survival of this faith tradition -- their single claim to a future -- was at stake, their level of toleration began to dissipate perceptively."

    It is interesting to compare the "zero tolerance level" of the WTBTS with Jesus' acceptance of harlots and sinners.

    Doug

  • jeanV
    jeanV

    Thanks Doug

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