by Deacon 15 Replies latest jw friends
Dear Deacon,
Will you entertain thoughts of other so-called holy books? Or is the bible going to be "it" for a while? Also, will you use any of the apocryphia (sp?).
Asking in sincerity,
Bridgette
"Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers." --Bruce Calvert
Teirce
Are you talking about how moses started his religion?
Deacon
Being leader of a new religion is a super idea. The income, prestige and power potential is only limited by your own desires.It's good to keep as many options open for doctrine, although it can always be changed later. To see some pitfalls to avoid, the bio of l ron hubbard (scientology) is a good guide. Enemies on whom to focus are a definite plus, but since govts can be a real pain, it is better to avoid problems with them.
Acolytes are easy to get as well. Showing a little kindness and concern at the start will attract many. Once you have them, you can slowly apply the screws. The main thing, i think is to remain focused and keep everyone else confused. It's really amazing how gullible many people are as long as they have a commanding figure around which to gather and look up to.
S
Yes, Mommy it is very easy: Check out
http://www.ulc.org/ulc/welcome.htm
Actually anyone can fill out the form, no cost involved, and become 'ordained' by the Universal Life Church. And, for certain fairly modest fees, received an official ordination certificate.
However, if you wish to perform weddings, funerals, etc., then you must also register with the State where you will officiate such services, if required. And, if you wish to start a web-based 'church,'
you will apparently be required to comply with Federal and State tax laws.
They have a variety of materials, even a video tape, apparently 'chock-full' of info as how to start-up your own web church or actual church/congregation housed in a building.
While there are no doubt sincere people who become ordained by the Universal Life Church, primarily in order to conduct their own preferences regarding wedding, funeral ceremonies, etc. in line with their personal beliefs. Ordination in this church, and complying with individual state laws re registering/licensing - it, unfortunately affords great opportunity to the scam artist.
I remember an exposure of a case in Texas regarding a woman ordained by one of these ordination certificate mills - she started a congregation, per the materials provided - developed quite a cult following - all the while scamming her typically widowed, divorced, sometimes depressed, mostly female 'flock' out of hundred of thousands of dollars. (Although she also 'took' several men for big bucks.) Sounds too believable, doesn't it?? And, it was deemed 'legit.' This 'church' came under public scrutiny when a child of one of the 'flock' found out her mother had revised her will and left all to 'Madame Reverand,' personally...including an 'in the family 5 generations' ranch valued at
$2,500,000,000!!
Now, one might ask, "If a church is state registered as a non-profit entity, how can they 'take' a person?" - first they can legally 'pay' themselves an extraordinary salary, then accept 'gifts' from their ever so psychologically dependent followers. Just as with WTBTS society, such dependent people, once hooked, may feel they have no place to go. And, the requests for more and more money, usually don't manifest until the scammer is certain an individual member is under his/her psychological control.
Remember always, con artists, just like molesters, rapists, spousal and child abusers, gigalos and even serial killers, come from all walks of life, races, and religions...many are sociopaths and all are, at the very least manipulative users. Please, beware, ask any man/woman leading you down such a path where they were ordained and licensed...if they won't answer, see if you can check their state licensing bureau for info (open to public inquiry by law.)
methinks SS and others you misunderstand..
I dont want to be the "leader of a new religion"..I have merely complied with the legalities as did the WTBTS for putting in place a structure for gaining all the tax breaks and other facilities given to religious corporations should it ever go that far.
The influence of being a JW for 40 years has been so deeply ingrained in me that the thought of anyone being paid for religious duties is an abhorrence...for those that know me, and a lot do..they know my total concern is for finding out the truth of the Bible...
I was pretty much shocked in my research in the US to find that each elder appointed in the WTBTS, is placed on a register at the HQ, and listed as a States approved minister, with the accompanying priveleges.
They can perform marriages, funerals, baptisms and ordain others into their religion.
They can if they wish, carry clergy badges and park in clergy car parks in hospitals and public car parks.
They get discounts on health insurance, travel and accomodation.
Usually though, in keeping free from the world, The WTBS does not encourage this practice among elders, indeed not even telling them of the benefits...except where it benefits them, ie missionaries, getting into ground zero in NY and prisons..Im sure the relevent documentations and badges are printed post haste when required.
It became so obvious during this researh why elders get away with so much in the USA. They are protected in law by Clergy Privelege, that is, they can refuse to testify by virtue of their position..though glad to say, more and more States are overturning that stance. This is why it is so difficult to get information from elders or prosecute elders for not helping in cases of child abuse and other atrocities...
For those that still believe in the Bible after freeing themselves from the shackles of the emotional bondage that held them for a period of time...the first couple of years in the worldis often a painful and spiritually hard time...for Comf, 6 of 9 and Kent and Janh...they found total freedom in not having a belief anymore in a God, this not being a choice made, but a very real acceptance of no longer having a belief....
I am on the verge of not being able to believe any more. I spend hours in prayer, hours researching both the WTBTS and the Bible. The very detailed work presented on this board by Alan F, Farkel, Kent. JAn H and other has really opened my eyes to the culpability of the WTBTS, and the manipulations utilised by the gang of 1914..albeit that has changed somewhat....1914 not the culpability..
I also am extremely grateful to those who have openly and with great sensitivity researched the Bible and placed their findings on the various boards of the internet.
I had hoped that if enough people wanted to meet and talk together, then perhaps a legal shell would offset all our expenses by making them tax deductible..but I guess the reality is that the corporations that use this facility...are in effect money making machines....and therefore any genuine facility would be tainted by the shadow it casts...and that has to include the WTBTS...
So here are the questions I would like to discuss. If anyone is interested in a real discussion, with self moderation in terms of just present their viewpoint, findings and opinion without attacking others...and doing it in a spirit of cooperation without rancour, then Im all for it.
Is the Bible the word of God?
Does the Bible record tally with dates and times historically?
What is the Bibles message?
Is there a heavenly hope for all or is the earthly hope real?
Are there anointed persons on earth today, and is the number limited to 144000?
What or who is Gods channel today?
Is the practice of shunning scriptural?
What medical practices are acceptable to Bible believers?
Is armageddon real and around the corner?
Is the holy spirit active in our day?
and lots of other questions...
So if anyone is interested...I would love to discuss each issue in depth..and eventually put into a booklet the conclusion of the discussions...
Im not into bashing the past...but I am into looking to my future..
I'm interested.
Check your e-mail
SaintSatan,
Yeah pretty much. ( http://www.juska.pp.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari4.htm ) This guy should be slapped with a bat for slovenly presentation, but he makes a fair effort of synthesizing things. I don't truck with his Atlantis ravings, but they're irrelevant to his conclusions on the Bible's source material. All that religious training Moses got in Egypt would have helped him forge the Israelite slave class into a union. The persecution complex of an angry skygod would be the perfect galvanizer. The Sumerian flood myth would be a perfect thing to adopt and tell the 'authorized' version of, so as to claim primary descent from the survivors with God-approved lineage. (I sometimes think Moses was starting from scratch and made up the entire Abraham Isaac Joseph tradition. heh) Another thing is that the Wisdom in Proverbs is a manifestation of the divine feminine wisdom of Inanna/Astarte/Ashtoreth, these being the remainders of primordial earth-goddesses.
