Parallels between Jonestown and WT org?

by skeptic1914 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Gill

  I understand now, Jim.

  I would think though, that when they have the special public talk after the memorial, the attendane barely rises above what it is usually. The memorial tends, in my mind, make the JWs look even bigger 'freaks' than normal and is more likely to have folk running from rather than to, the KH.

  I agree the R and F may feel spiritually 'Uplifted' but that's because they superstitiously attended a meeting and believe they are safe for another year......just in case, Armageddon comes Soooooooooooooooooon.
• 

  rebel8

  If I remember correctly, there were no armed guards at Jonestown until the last few days. Before then, people were afraid but there weren't weapons or actual threats--just the usual cult fear tactics. I think that's why the cult members had difficulty convincing the Senator and the media that they were in danger.
  
  The last few days have not yet arrived for jws, so I don't think we can say for certain that it won't end in the same way. Time will tell but the danger signs are present.
  
  I created a brochure that compares these 2 cults. It is on my activism page at www.jwinfo.8m.com. Also, there is a comparison chart on the cult comparison page.
• 

  sammielee24

  Yes, I really do believe the WTS is a dangerous cult that will use persuasion through it's literature and kingdom hall meetings to slowly get it's followers to do things that normal people would not think of doing. Even when I left a few years ago, I left because I was expected to do and accept things that went against my nature. I think the pictures that WT puts in its literature says it all when you consider it as a violent cult. The old childrens bible study books had pictures of little girl and puppy dying at God's hand at Armaggedon. The literature I was familiar with had pictures that depicted people being killed by buildings crashing on them, churches burning, and people walking and smiling as it happened, and pictures of monsterlike beasts with big teeth and blood dripping. These pictures, when you think about it, are very influential in persuading people to harden in their attitude towards outsiders and those wanting to leave the religion. It is the WT leadership using these threatening pictures to get the members to obey and fear reprisal from those put in charge of carrying out the letter of the laws imposed by the governing body, who in my mind is the dangerous cult leader like Jim Jones was. They are already expecting the members to view those of us who have chosen to leave as wicked and deserving of death because they have given us a label for members to hate and fear. "Apostates" I was once told by a friend who said I deserved to die because, I was deliberately leaving Jehovah and that nowadays it's against the law to stone apostates to death, so they have to view apostates as deserving death. This attitude could be slowly changed I think to get some believers to carry out some kind of retribution against those leaving them, or those they put out. Shunning is thier way of psychologically giving a death sentence. It makes them feel superior and doing the will of God. It's a little scary when you think about this kind of mentality. Nice to see you all

  This is an excellent point ARoarer. If you think in terms of complete fear and brainwashing in the children - most 'normal' parents want their little ones to go to bed happy and feeling loved and secure. Part of this for a lot of folks is the odd fairy tale or childrens story that does not depict monsters and dead puppies. A JW feels obliged to read from and show their kids this stuff - call it desensitizing, so when a child grows up in the society, the damage is so much greater in how they act/react to those around them. It's sickening. This allows them as they get older to think entirely of those worthy vs unworthy and thus sentence them to whatever death they deserve.

  I was told by family, and I know there are many others, that in times past I'd be stoned to death. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that if the WTS told the families that stoning was necessary - some of us would be dead at the hands of our own families - yet, we abhor govt's who continue this practice but society refuses to acknowledge how close this cult is in similar thought. We can say it's the act that counts - but the act is already being committed by other, more insidious means like the blood, the 2 witness rule, judicial committes, shunning and suicide.

  I understand what Jim is saying about the memorial. The doors will be closing faster and shut tighter once the new magazine rules come into play in 2008. The 'loyal' will be feel more privileged. Their zeal will know no bounds as they froth at the mouth to hear what they think are words directly from God. If all were told to partake at the memorial, they would, and it would be a simple enough matter to convince them that they would wake up perfect and happy in a new world. Simple. Let's be aware too, that the order need not come from the GB - all it takes is one whacko nut job or a group of extremists in one congregation to start spouting this stuff, and it can happen as easily as you blink. Whisper......something special is going to take place this year ....whisper...this is it...we have to go.......I can't wait....and so it goes, as followers made to feel somehow special, and somehow superior to the rest of the world, so far removed from it - pass the cup and keel over. Only problem is - they don't wake up. sammiewife.
• 

  sinis

  I understand what Jim is saying about the memorial. The doors will be closing faster and shut tighter once the new magazine rules come into play in 2008. The 'loyal' will be feel more privileged. Their zeal will know no bounds as they froth at the mouth to hear what they think are words directly from God. If all were told to partake at the memorial, they would, and it would be a simple enough matter to convince them that they would wake up perfect and happy in a new world. Simple. Let's be aware too, that the order need not come from the GB - all it takes is one whacko nut job or a group of extremists in one congregation to start spouting this stuff, and it can happen as easily as you blink. Whisper......something special is going to take place this year ....whisper...this is it...we have to go.......I can't wait....and so it goes, as followers made to feel somehow special, and somehow superior to the rest of the world, so far removed from it - pass the cup and keel over. Only problem is - they don't wake up. sammiewife.

  Exactly! Can you imagine things getting worse in todays society and the GB, who has been "appointed by God" telling the masses that Jehoba wants them to partake at the memorial. Hell, they could even tell them that just as God took Enoch, so God has told them thats its time to leave this earth so that He can judge the ones left (AKA as Global Flood part 2), who did not get into this "ark".
• 

  SirNose586

  The org would have to shrink significantly, and become quite desperate in order for the Jonestown/Waco endgame to play out. Right now the org is worldwide, and the leadership complacent. The Tower will need to sustain quite a bit of damage before such a thing could happen.
• 

  Bangalore

  Bttt.

  Bangalore
• 

  Vidiot

  kwr - "I don't see any parallels at all...JW's have a non-violent theology..."

  A recent study done by Canadian law enforcement on authoritarian high-control groups demonstrated that when a group reaches a certain level of marginilization, the leadership feels compelled to physically withdraw from the rest of society. Later stages often include criminal activities, and I agree, it's hard to imagine the WTS becoming involved with that, but still, "goin' up to the country" is - more often than not - stage 1 of a descent into bona fide extremism.

  Recently, the WTS has sold off the Brooklyn properties (or is in the process of doing so), and moved HQ to upstate New York in a semi-rural setting. Make no mistake; this will have raised red flags at the DHS, FBI, and other three-letter agencies.

  As to their official pacifist stance, I agree, it is an anomoly for a high-control group; I would argue that it's a big reason why they've survived so long; most of the nastier extremist groups crash and burn before too long.

  The important thing to remember is that the longer this "Old System" lasts and/or fails to follow the WTS's unique prophetic script, the more the cash flow is reduced, the more young people are leaving (or are never even getting baptized, FTM), the more they are percieved as an anachronism by the rest of society, and the more marginalized they will feel, the WTS will take increasingly more extreme steps to survive.

  Not all here agree, but some of us suspect that they might be attempting to construct some kind of underground shelter complex at the new HQ, for example.