Another letter...

by Matt_fs 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Matt_fs

  Hey folks, I sent a letter to a friend, and asked him a question. Here is what I wrote:

  "Hey buddy,

  I am going to be writing a reply to what you wrote, but since im at work right now I cant really write that big of an email. So I just want to ask you a question and maybe you can help me out with it. Can you read Deut 18:20-22 and explain to me what that scripture means? I look forward to your reply

  Cheers

  Matt"

  So I didnt get a responce so I wrote:

  " I take it from the no reply from my last email about deuteronomy you dont know or understand the scripture I asked for help?"

  Then I get a reply which I was not satisfied with but it went like this:

  "Here you go man, straight out of the Watchtower.
  
  
  Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263) “The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”—February 15, 1981, page 19."

  I really did not want this as an answer, but I have to accept the fact that JW's all run to the watchtower magazine for answers. I want to reply tactfully, and with some really good quotes, and questions to make him think. I have alot of scans with watchtowers saying that the watchtower is gods truths and not mans etc etc. But what I really like from this forum is the questions and replys you folk help me with. So Im wondering if any of you have comments that I could use/say to help me write this email back to him. Thanks for your help,

  Matt
• 

  darth frosty

  The WT has a powerfull conditioning program. Dubs get so use to being spoon fed what to think, the idea or notion of forming opinons and thoughts apart from the borg makes one feel eww-y.
• 

  Inquisitor

  Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263) “The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”—February 15, 1981, page 19."

  Faced with such nauseating pseudo-humility on the part of the Watchtower Society, I cannot help but ask if the Society and the power structures they put in place tolerate ANY dissenting views from its members.

  In which congregation has the body of elders allowed any of its members to voice in their public meetings an analytically critical comment (as opposed to a pessimistic critique) of the articles written by Bethel HQ WITHOUT the threat of discipline or excommunication??? If disciplinary action is the norm and not the exception under those circumstances, then does the Watchtower Society not behave as if their written words are both infallible and inspired of God?

  INQ
• 

  Handsome Dan

  Well said Inquisitor the jwdbs. have pre-scripted questions that they are given to ask, any individual analysis of the doctrinal preaching is frowned on and will get you in trouble.

  It's quite on purpose that they never mention their past false prophecies. I was a jw for 20 years and I never heard about 1925 or 1936 but I was around for the 1975 lie.
• 

  SirNose586

  Here's a full page of quotes on how they are "God's channel" and "God's organization."

  The contradictions abound everywhere:

  1. True prophets are inspired. False prophets are uninspired. But the WTS claims to be an uninspired, true prophet, something that should logically not exist.
  2. They will tell you that God is using the Watchtower to dispense New Light TM to people across the world. They will tell you that God is using the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (and all the other corporations) as his organization. They will also tell you that God is the editor of the WT (as stated in the 1954 trial). They inform you that God is specifically giving truth to their Faithful and Discreet Slave TM class. So from their words, God is in every process: God gives the truth to a class of people, God uses a magazine to dispense this truth to the world, God has full control over this magazine (as editor), and furthermore, God is running the organization that puts out this magazine. But somehow they can tell you that occasionally some things slip through that God didn't approve, or things that shouldn't have been said. Somehow, wrong ideas can slip through for decades. If this God can't even manage a simple publishing corporation...wow.

  And folks, if you like defending the Watchtower, please step up the plate and prove me wrong here. Because the same God who payed close attention and wanted to kill Moses because he was uncircumcised, yet killed Onan because he pulled out, would somehow not mind falsehoods being taught to people for decades. If this "new light" principle were true--and based on the context of Proverbs, it is not--wouldn't it be more convincing if wrong ideas were corrected not long after they came out? Think about it. The GB has the final say on all articles. According to their words, they receive special insight. God blesses them with insight. But apparently, the doctrine approval process must get really clogged up there in heaven. The generation teaching was apparently wrong for many decades. God couldn't find the time to say, "Hey guys, this generation teaching is not what you think. Please stop misleading people."

  But you know what? Maybe there's no contradiction at all. As it stands, they're true prophets, just uninspired. So maybe God can't talk to them to let them know they are wrong. But miraculously, though God can't inspire them to know what's right or wrong, they just know what the truth is! Fantastic guesswork, no?
• 

  inbyathread

  My response back would be "I wanted YOUR explanation on the scripture, what you believe this scripture means to you. NOT the Watchtowers explanation. Try again."

  I asked the presiding overseer of my (ex)congregation. Perhaps these questions would work for you as well.

  Q. Is the Bible inspired?

  A. Yes, of course it is.

  Q. Is the Watchtower magazine inspired?

  A. No.

  Q. Then why are we required to believe everything that is printed in that magazine? Even the Governing Body do not state that they are inspired. How can their words be held so closely as the Bible's?

  A. (Blank)

  I further commented:

  Remember 2 Timothy 3:16,17 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

  Scripture is benefical for teaching and setting things straight, not the Watchtower.
• 

  greendawn

  These are some strange explanations, the GB claims that the Holy Spirit does not act today in the way it used to, which is a very devious and false statement to justify their predictions and dogmatic errors. The Holy Spirit does not change its mode of operation and those claiming to formulate doctrine under its direction should be infallible, in this aspect of doctrine making. The worst part is that the WTS demands from its members to make extensive adjustments in their lives in accordance with docrines and predictions that prove erroneous.
• 

  penny2

  My reply:

  Hey man, I don't have WTs from the 1800's, but what I do have is the Watchtower Library 2005 CD which (quoting from 1 April 1972 WT) states:

  "The scroll was doubtless delivered to Ezekiel by the hand of one of the cherubs in the vision. This would indicate that Jehovah’s witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the Kingdom under angelic direction and support. (Rev. 14:6, 7; Matt. 25:31, 32) And since no word or work of Jehovah can fail, for he is God Almighty, the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from heaven.

  Yes, the time must come shortly that the nations will have to know that really a "prophet" of Jehovah was among them. Actually now more than a million and a half persons are helping that collective or composite "prophet" in his preaching work and well over that number of others are studying the Bible with the "prophet" group and its companions."

  So anyone can quote from a WT somewhere to say anything they want. What I'm really interested in is what YOU think the scripture means.

  Over to you man.
• 

  Inquisitor

  the GB claims that the Holy Spirit does not act today in the way it used to, which is a very devious and false statement to justify their predictions and dogmatic errors. - greendawn

  Really? Is this a recent admission? Where? When?

  INQ
• 

  AK - Jeff

  True prophets are inspired. False prophets are uninspired. But the WTS claims to be an uninspired, true prophet, something that should logically not exist.

  Sirnose586 - Dead on!