I just do not understand........

by WildHorses 11 Replies latest jw friends

WildHorses

Maybe it's just me but, why is it that "Christians" seem to be the most judgmental, unforgiving, hard hearted people?
All my life for some reason or other, I have believed in God and Jesus, but throughout history, and even in our time. The cruelest acts have been done in the name of God.
I see "Christians" claim they have love of their fellow man, but their actions (and words) are to the contrary. It really has me wondering if being a "Christian" is the right thing to be.
Atheist treat people with more compassion then Christians do. They are far less judgmental, more accepting of others who have a difference of opinion.
Is it the fact that Christians think they are somehow better than non Christians?
I just don't get it...............and if the way people who claim to be Christians act, is the norm. I don't think I really want to be one. I believe that unless someone is hurting another, that they have a right to live life the way they choose and not be judged for doing so. If I am wrong, please help me out because I just don't get it.
Lilacs
larc

Lilacs,
You bring up a very interesting and complicated subject. I don't know if I can give justice to your questions, but I will give it a try.
It seems to me that the ordinary Christian and the ordinary member of any religion are good people just trying to figure out how to live a good life. Their concerns are about getting married, getting a decent job, raising their kids to be upright and happy adults. In this regard, I think all people from all religions and cultures share this in common.
I think the real destructive members of any religion are those set out to convert others to their religion. I think there is a strong correlation between the degree of proseltyzing in a religion and the characteristics you describe. As Witnesses, we were taught that we were God's choosen people, and everyone else was of Satan, unless, of course, we could convert them. I am sure this mind set is common in other religions. The southern baptists come to mind in this regard. Now, with this kind of midset, you talk love, but you have a real hate for other people. This has been demonstrated several times on this board. A sweet loving person comes here to convert us. When they are challenged, the hate becomes manifest, by their vituperous slander against us.
By contrast, the atheist and the agnostic have their beliefs but feels no need to "convert" anyone. I am an agnostic. I will express my opinions, but usually do not unless someone asks me. If I express my views I really don't care if the other person is persuaded to believe like me or not. I am not on a mission to change anybody. I will share my ideas, if requested, but my life and theirs does not hang in the balance, if I don't convert them. I guess that is why atheists and agnostics are even tempered about this whole issue.
Well, Lilac, a good topic. I enjoyed responding to it.
OlderTom

Congratulations
You are well on the way to the learnig the real truth.
Unfortunatel many of us only find out these things after wasting many many years trying to serve god then we find out all along we were serving those who run things.
Many people find they need to belong somewhere. To be wanted and needed and appreciated. As a JDub I was always taught that people of the world were no good. Then I got babtized and found out that JDubs only love you so long as you fly in formation. Start thinking for yourself or disagreeing with the big boys in Brookly and you are in BIG trouble.
Soon your "friends" will start to gossip behind your back. Make up little stories, they don't have to be true. Next thing you know you are the scum of the earth.
By their fruits you will know them Christ said when talking about his followers. It was their fruitage which made me realise that these people are not followers of Christ but followers of those pathetic old farts in Paterson/Brooklyn. In other words a money making cult. YOUR money not mine.
If you look for the good in people you will find good people. There are just as many good people in the world as there are good people in the "truth(TM)" They just don't go shouting it from the roof tops and keep congratulating each other on how holy they are.
messenger

Congratulations!
You have continued the journey to see the real truth. So many get sidetracked and join another religion thus just another version of being a JW. When you continue to think and use sound logic along with factual research you find you arrive at a plateau of understanding filled with persons who feel much the same way. It is kind of like the movie the "beach" where they find a kind of utopia hidden from the rest of the world.
I have difficulty labeling this belief system with any general name that most assign. I simply like to say I believe in living life to the fullest each day and taking responsibility for my decisions in life. Religion prevents you from doing both. As others have mentioned we judge no one for their choices in life. Hey if you want to remain a JW, that is a choice and you will have to live with the result, it is not my job to be anyone's spiritual leader. On the other hand I would not discourage them from taking the journey to the real truth if they are unhappy. Still it is a choice they must make.
While of course, we can't agree with criminal acts or self destructive behaviors, persons who do these things have to suffer the result of their decisions without our judgmental condemnation. IT is freeing. As a witness I always felt God was mad at me. I was not a good enough publisher, pioneer, elder, etc... Now I feel at peace with God. It is a fair relationship. If he wants something, he needs to tell me. Until that day happens, I simply live life as best I can and assume if God exists he must be happy with what we are doing. If he does not exist, then I do the best I can to make a good mark on my life and those who I am able to help along the way. It is much like the statement at the end of the last Star Trek movie when the captain made this statement about life. It went something like this:
"What we leave behind is not as important as how we have lived"
I think how we live and make a difference in the lives of others has far greater value than the spiritual masturbation offered by being a Jehovah's Witness.
Amazing

Hi Liliacs: The same is true of Islam, Judaism, goddless communism, etc. Any system or "-ism" has its share of hypocrites and those that do not understand to purpose of the beliefs, and those who use any system to elevate themselves to positions of power.
Faith in God, being a Christian is really a personal relationship, and is between God and the individual. Taking it from that perspective, almost any "-ism" makes more sense, except perhaps goddless communism, for which I am not sure what can be said except that that system allowed for "altruism" to thrive without God. Yet, it is not the "ism" itself, but the nature of the individual that counts.
Individuality and individualism, in my opinion, are when each of us can come to terms with ourselves, and find our place in life, and instead of being just a follower, find a way to go ahead of others and pave a new trail.
I have abandoned all form of organized religion, without judging such, except to say that I can never again become part of an "-ism". Now that I have taken that step, I am also finding myself in a struggle to understand God, his existence, and whether he is really concerned for us. On one hand, Jesus Christ inspires me and gives me hope that God does care, but on the other hand, the evidence of daily living leaves me feeling left out in the cold. - Amazing
think41self

Hi Lilacs,
I strongly agree with Larc's comments, so I won't repeat them. It just seems to me that any belief system that teaches only they have the "true religion" and all others are wrong...is the beginning of many of mankind's problems. Then you add the strong urge to convert the others so you can "save their souls" and here comes the closing of the minds, and the separation of humanity.
Just my 2 cents. I will never again belong to any religion. While I see they do good for some(and I would never try to tell them they shouldn't belong to it) it is most definitely NOT for me. I am a better person following my own conscience without judgementalism toward others than I ever was as a Christian.
think41self
"Not believing is not the same as not knowing."
JT

Larc
You are so right on all your points-
one of the most interesting things about Beleif Systems for the most part is that it's members ARE REQUIRED to look down on others who don't share thier views- i must agree with the bible on this point
that when a man kills you in the name of god and feels he has done a service for god - you got some problems on your hand
and for the most part - belief systems teach their members that God has whispered into thier ear or thier leaders ear and to follow will only result in divine blessings
most believers in my exp have the view that somehow you are lost without "Jesus" your life is not complete without "Jesus" and the list goes on and on- the kicker is if we all lived in Iran . china or someother country perhaps one in Africa we would be saying the same thing for a belief system other than christainity-
so depending where one is born for the most part determines one belief system- as black man if i was born in the Congo in year 1374
i would more than likely not be a "christain" yet i would have firmly believed that my belief system was what helped my people from day to day-
looking back at being a jw ---i see nothing more dangerous than when a man or woman sincerely believes that they are directed, inspired or being spoken to by god- that is so dangerous
HoChiMin

Lilacs,
In my case I have to thank the WT for showing me the bad ways of other religions. Once I saw the WT was also a false religion it was easy to apply the "get out of her" rule and never return.
HCM
JT

think41self
says
It just seems to me that any belief system that teaches only they have the "true religion" and all others are wrong...is the beginning of many of mankind's problems.
##########
this is the bottom line - a good exp is- REX or SF
they drive home that point in an excellent way of the problem of say
"I got the inside track to god and you don't"
they
borgfree

Hi Lilacs,
I think one reason, maybe the biggest reason, is found in the bible. Matthew 13:24-30. The illustration is about the Master sowing His field, His true followers. During the night the enemy sowed the SAME field with weeds, NOT true followers. You can reason for yourself why the enemy would do that and the results. But the Master said to leave the field alone! At His appointed time He would have the weeds removed.
I think we have to realize that the illustration shows that if the real enemy was sowing his weeds in the field, he would not use just a few grains of seed, he would probably use all of the seeds at his disposal. This would apply to all religions, we must not expect perfection in any religion for that reason.
borgfree
"You can fool some of the people all of the time" especially if you are a member of the WT GB

I just do not understand........

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