Everlasting Life on Paradise Earth - My musings of why it cannot be true

by leaving_quietly 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  leaving_quietly

  Actually, just one musing.

  There are a number of scriptures that WTBTS uses to support their doctrine of everlasting life on paradise earth. The vast majority come from the Hebrew scriptures. Using just one verse, I believe I can disprove this doctrine quite soundly.

  The verse is John 6:68.

  Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.
  

  Peter was a Jew, as were the other apostles at that time. Jesus was speaking to Jews about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. They were all shocked at the thought of it, not realizing he was speaking figuratively. So, many left. When Jesus posed the question, "You do not want to go also, do you?", Peter answered as above.

  Had Peter and the other apostles ever heard of everlasting life on a paradise earth at any previous time from any other source, he would NOT have made this statement.

  Of course, we know that Jesus never held out the hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth, contrary to what WTBTS would have us believe. The Bible simply never says that at all. Thus, regardless of what all those Hebrew scriptures seem to say, the Jews at that time NEVER understood it the way WTBTS would have us believe.

  Thoughts?
  

  
  
  
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  OneEyedJoe

  Yeah, I always thought it was odd that he would say that if an eternal future in paradise was the plan from the beginning, as the doctrine goes.
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  TTATTelder

  Great point. The disciples knew those scriptures in psalms and such were just over the top songs about future blessings from Jah / promised land yada yada...No real outlined purpose or plans for the future restoration of Eden for the "great crowd" and all that. I swear the more this TTATT stuff sinks in the more comical jw beliefs sound. 

  -TE
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  kaik

  It is important to understand what paradise meant for Jewish scholars after 300 BCE, during 1st century AD, and how we understand it thanks to Catholic influence on the Christian theology. Paradise on Earth is rather modern construct, especially developed and groomed by Protestant Reformation during 16th century. There is a good book Paradise in Antiquity Jewish and Christian Views which well describe the development of this theology and how it changed through the time. From 4th century BCE, Jews started to believe that the paradise was not on Earth, but a place when the dead with depart either immediately after their death or after spiritual resurrection. Jews in the Jesus era were most likely not believing on earthly paradise, as they expected Messianic Age where there will be a peace among nations, not recreated Garden of Eden. Generally the rabbinic literature maintain that paradise existed before creation of earth and thus was a spiritual not physical place on earth.

  Another point to consider that Earth and our Solar system is not infinitive, but has limited resources. Sun will eventually burn all the hydrogen, and Earth's core will cool down. There wont be any plate tectonic, and our planet will eventually die. It wont happen until in 2 billions of years, but still Earth's is not permanent place.
  
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  user100

  when i was young, i never believed there will be a paradise and even if there was, I did not want to live in a paradise... this was in my teens.. as i was getting ready to be baptised for the family..elder asked me if i wanted to get baptised and my response was "i think so" he did not like the answer.. he said "you think so?" i quickly rephrased to "i know i want to get baptised" worst decision of my life.. wish i had to balls to tell my parents to f-off.
  
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  No where in the Bible will anyone ever find the term, "paradise earth".

   

  Ps. 37:10, 11, one of WT's favorite "paradise earth" scriptures was actually referring to the restoration of the Jews to their homeland. Where WT has interjected "earth" the original, correct word, is "land". 
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  sowhatnow

  well , the way i see it,  according to 2 corinthians 12 vs  2 and 4 paradise is in the third heaven.
  

  and jesus said you will be with me in paradise, which is apparently in heaven.[interestingly he said that to a criminal, but hey, he believed jesus was lord,  so he got saved right then and there]

  and in Matthew ch 24 vs 35 says heaven and earth will pass away  [because men will ruin he earth, and so they must be ruined too] but his words will not, 

  so when he comes, no one will know anyway, [like in Noah's day, no one knew it came, until the flood came and they all died , see no one told them,  they were not warned they were already judged  as bad.] 
  

  two women grinding at the mill,  he takes one and leaves the other, he read the heart apparently and knows who to take,
  

  and then the earth i guess will be burned up and there will be a new heavens and earth in which righteousness is to dwell.

  so do we need to fight? can we hide in a cave [pointing a gun at whoever] ?  no. but oddly, the bible also says lift up your heads and see ,
  

  something   ,     bla bla bla, so whatever .
  

  but i asked someone once, where does it say in the bible that people will survive or live through Armageddon? they survive a tribulation, but Armageddon is a place. not an event.if its Gods war, its not ours right?

  
  
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  game1914over

  Never never never never ever believed in the paradise/new system concept!

  Common sense overrules this concept terribly. LOL

  Think about it:  Consider this scenerio -- At some point in time, human population would get out of control considering a perfect woman (forever youthful) would have continuous fertility....right?  Shouldn't she?  In addition, a perfect man (forever youthful) would always maintain a healthy sperm count. It would seem miserable as a woman to be pregnant forever....this is how I've always visualized life as a woman in this life. 

  I may have crazy reasoning, but where on EARTH will all of these humans fit to survive with this continuous cycle of births and population? 

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  Trailer Park Pioneer

  JWs are told to ignore scriptures like these because they don't apply to them!   The Good News taught by JWs is not taught by the Bible or the Apostles, it's a fraud!
  

  Philippians 1:12-30

  12 And I want you to know this, dear brothers: Everything that has happened to me here has been a great boost in getting out the Good News concerning Christ. 13 For everyone around here, including all the soldiers over at the barracks, knows that I am in chains simply because I am a Christian. 14 And because of my imprisonment, many of the Christians here seem to have lost their fear of chains! Somehow my patience has encouraged them, and they have become more and more bold in telling others about Christ.

  15 Some, of course, are preaching the Good News because they are jealous of the way God has used me. They want reputations as fearless preachers! But others have purer motives, 16-17 preaching because they love me, for they know that the Lord has brought me here to use me to defend the Truth. And some preach to make me jealous, thinking that their success will add to my sorrows here in jail! 18 But whatever their motive for doing it, the fact remains that the Good News about Christ is being preached, and I am glad.

  19 I am going to keep on being glad, for I know that as you pray for me, and as the Holy Spirit helps me, this is all going to turn out for my good. 20 For I live in eager expectation and hope that I will never do anything that will cause me to be ashamed of myself but that I will always be ready to speak out boldly for Christ while I am going through all these trials here, just as I have in the past; and that I will always be an honor to Christ, whether I live or whether I must die. 21 For to me, living means opportunities for Christ, and dying—well, that’s better yet! 22 But if living will give me more opportunities to win people to Christ, then I really don’t know which is better, to live or die! 23 Sometimes I want to live, and at other times I don’t, for I long to go and be with Christ. How much happier for me than being here! 24 But the fact is that I can be of more help to you by staying!

  25 Yes, I am still needed down here, and so I feel certain I will be staying on earth a little longer, to help you grow and become happy in your faith; 26 my staying will make you glad and give you reason to glorify Christ Jesus for keeping me safe when I return to visit you again.

  27 But whatever happens to me, remember always to live as Christians should, so that whether I ever see you again or not, I will keep on hearing good reports that you are standing side by side with one strong purpose—to tell the Good News 28 fearlessly, no matter what your enemies may do. They will see this as a sign of their downfall, but for you it will be a clear sign from God that he is with you, and that he has given you eternal life with him. 29 For to you has been given the privilege not only of trusting him but also of suffering for him.30 We are in this fight together. You have seen me suffer for him in the past; and I am still in the midst of a great and terrible struggle now, as you know so well.

  
  

     5 For we know that when this tent we live in now is taken down—when we die and leave these bodies—we will have wonderful new bodies in heaven, homes that will be ours forevermore, made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 How weary we grow of our present bodies. That is why we look forward eagerly to the day when we shall have heavenly bodies that we shall put on like new clothes. 3 For we shall not be merely spirits without bodies.4 These earthly bodies make us groan and sigh, but we wouldn’t like to think of dying and having no bodies at all. We want to slip into our new bodies so that these dying bodies will, as it were, be swallowed up by everlasting life. 5 This is what God has prepared for us, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

  6 Now we look forward with confidence to our heavenly bodies, realizing that every moment we spend in these earthly bodies is time spent away from our eternal home in heaven with Jesus. 7 We know these things are true by believing, not by seeing. 8 And we are not afraid but are quite content to die, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So our aim is to please him always in everything we do, whether we are here in this body or away from this body and with him in heaven. 10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged and have our lives laid bare—before him. Each of us will receive whatever he deserves for the good or bad things he has done in his earthly body."
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  Blackfalcon98

  Good points here, but lets not forget that the borg. teaches that all first century Christians were anointed. This is

  convenient. Lets also remember that the "heavenly call" was sealed in 1935. These utter lies causes serious bible

  students to ignore many of these verses in preference of WT dogma.