Question for JWS and EXJWS

by Fisherman 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

daystar

I see you fancy yourself a fisher of men...

1 Do you now reject all of the wts teachings and doctrines?
I reject all teachings I judge as being bullshit. That would mean most of the WBTS teachings as well as many generally Christian teachings and teachings of other religions. At this point, I daily consider "Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law, Love is the Law, Love under Will" as primary.
2 What doctrines do you still believe in?
Doctrinally? Practically nothing. And I only say practically because nothing comes to mind, but there could be something, somewhere. I don't intend on putting too much thought to it.
3 What doctrines have you stopped believing in?
See 2.
4 What doctrines are you not sure about?
Again, see 2.
What are you trying to accomplish here?
Junction-Guy

I reject just about every doctrine in the JW Cult. I heard someone say at the WNFJ conference-"If the wt says its wrong, then it's probably right, if the wt says its right, its probably wrong" That pretty much sums it up for me. To answer your question

I believe in the trinity

I believe in a literal fire burning hell

I believe the earth will burn someday, and then there will be a new earth.

I believe in the rapture

I believe the bible is the inspired word of God, and nothing else is needed, not even a watchtower magazine.

I believe that Jesus is my mediator, not some lying governing body.

I believe Jesus had a bodily resurrection, not a spirit.

I believe the earth was created in 6 days, not 6000 years, not 40,000 years.

I believe in the KJV of the bible, definitely not the NWT.

I believe that while some of our holidays may have pagan origins how they are viewed today is much more important than back when they were started.

I believe in voting

I pledge to the flag, and am very proud to be an american.

Oh well I could go on and on, but you get the drift.
Hortensia

have rejected not only the WTBTS but all other religions as well. Don't believe any of that crap. What am I sure of? the importance of living today as there are no guarantees of tomorrow, or any future other than wishful thinking. Maybe there's an afterlife, we'll find out when we get there, or it won't matter anyway. So I don't believe much of anything, find science interesting but not going to worship it either. Have decided it is important for me to try to live a decent life, carrying my own loads, trying not to hurt others, helping others when I can, and minding my own business about how other people run their lives.
Fisherman

1 Do you now reject all of the wts teachings and doctrines? no
2 What doctrines do you still believe in? hell is not hot. I reject trinity. Jesus is not God. Jesus is Messiah Redemption of mankind, YHWH is the true God and the fulfiller of his word.
3 What doctrines have you stopped believing in? hard to stop believing,however I cannot believe in dying for God, being a martyr, blood is more important than the life it represents
4 What doctrines are you not sure about? 144,000, fds, eternal destruction, killing of billions, 1914, generation, gentile times, who goes to heaven, time of the end, meaning of the ransom, human suffering and univeral sovereignty, rank and file and many others.
mrchuffster

Religion Is A Snare and A Racket
drew sagan

In answer to your questions I can say that I no longer believe any of the Watchtowers teachings that make them unique. So I reject all of the Watchtowers fundamental teachings but will agree that from time to time there are things that I would find agreement with (these tend to be minor points that don't really add to any particuliar cosmology outside of the general 'christian' label).

Since JWs are a high control group they are determined to recieve constant agreement from its members. That being the case you must realize that any particuliar docrine they teach is only of value to them if it can help control the flock. I am quite convinced that if the trinity doctrine was in the minority and arianism was in the majority in todays Christian religions the Watchtower would be making the case that Jesus is God. They use such doctrines as a way to isolate themselves as the 'only true organization', not because of any true desire to search for truth.

Its because of this that I decided to sipmly ignore everything they have taught me and to start from scratch. My conclusions then will be my own and not the product of the WTs organizations (or anybody elses for that matter).

Personally I have benifited greatly from the expierance because it has helped me realize the need for personal responsiblity in my decisions and beliefs rather than a blind acceptance from authority.
BFD

1 Do you now reject all of the wts teachings and doctrines?
2 What doctrines do you still believe in?
3 What doctrines have you stopped believing in?
4 What doctrines are you not sure about?
1.Yes, except the teaching that religion is a snare and a racket.
2. None.
3. All.
4. see answer to #3.
BFD
LittleToe

I've turned my back on all of their teachings. Even the ones that seem reasonably close to mainstream Christianity are subtly twisted away from Christ...
OnTheWayOut

1 Do you now reject all of the wts teachings and doctrines?
YES- although there must be tiny bits of actual truth in some of their teachings.
2 What doctrines do you still believe in?
I have decided to "believe in" no doctrines at all, but live a good life without religion.
You might say, I believe in the golden rule, still.
3 What doctrines have you stopped believing in?
Anything related to the "last days" and the teaching that Jesus died on an upright stake, abstaining from blood.
Anything related to totally shunning anybody. While I could go on and on, those stand out in my mind.
4 What doctrines are you not sure about?
While I will avoid organized religion, I am not sure about whether there isn't some truth in all religions, or in
Christianity, or if the entire thing is a crock- snare and a racket only.
Drew Sagan made a pretty good comment
any particuliar docrine they teach is only of value to them if it can help control the flock
If Christendom says cross, they say stake. If the world says do whatever feels good, they say the world belongs to Satan.
Under Rutherford, the WTS has learned to be controversial. I believed they taught truth because they were bold enough to
differ with mainstream religion. Now that this method is wearing out, they wish they could become mainstream religion.
Since they cannot do that without rocking the faith of their established followers, they muddy their own beliefs so it seems as
if they never changed them, but constantly change them.
Mad

Beer C writes: "A simple example. The Watchtower tells its members to believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. Read the small book of Jude. What does Jude say about this? Also consider that If Jesus is Michael when back in heaven, why does every New Testament writer call the resurrected Lord Jesus, Our Savior Christ Jesus, Christ Our King etc. Can you find one verse where Michael is called Our Lord, Saviour, King? I choose to believe my Bible when it tells me Jesus is Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) "
Mad writes: Was Jesus called Michael? Consider, Beer:
What name did Jesus have before being GIVEN the name "Jesus" when he came to earth?
To understand this issue, one must understand what an angel is in the FIRST place!
Angel in Hebrew means simply "Messenger"- thus the elders of the congregations addressed in Revelation (Chapter 2) are referred to as- you guessed it- angels!
Jesus was himself an ANGEL - the greatest messenger (angel) of all time!
But was he MIchael? WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE THINK THAT? Here is why!
1- Michael is described with the authority that only Christ is shown
to have. The confrontation with Satan over Moses body (Jude 9)
was long before Jesus was given the HIGHEST authority of his
Father (after his death & resurrection)- AND before the Son of God
was GIVEN the name "JESUS"! That name is NEVER referred to as
belonging to someone in the heavens till Christ was resurrected,
even tho it was a name used on Earth ( Joshua is the same name-
in Hebrew, "Joshua/Jesus (Greek)" meaning "Jehovah is Salvation".
When Michael said "May the Lord rebuke you"- Jesus WAS NOT
LORD at that time- Jehovah, his Father was.
Daniel 12:1- refers to Michael standing up for God's people at
the time of the end during the Great Tribulation, as Christ later
REVEALED HE HIMSELF WOULD DO! "Jesus the Son of
God" WAS COMPLETELY UNKNOWN TO GOD'S PEOPLE (Israel) at
that time.
2- Then comes the further revelations thru the inspired Christian
records:
Paul at 1 Thess 4:16 tell us Christ acts with the voice (authority)
OF THE ARCHANGEL- and he's LEADING an army of angels
(2 Thess1:9)! That authority wasn't given to him by an archangel! That authority was straight from God Himself- the authority/ voice
of the Angels' Leader was Christ- he IS the Archangel. Finally,
3- The name! Michael means, in Hebrew, "Who Is Like God?" Even
tho men on Earth have been given that name ( I have)- ONLY
ONE PERSON ANYWHERE is TRULY LIKE God...Guess who?! Bingo!
JESUS is the ONLY one!!! You know the scriptures!
(If you DON'T- PLEASE let me know, and I'll post those, too.
4- God inspired John to refer to Jesus by his original name, Michael, in Revelation
to verify that Daniel's prophecy of Michael protecting God's people-
would still take place!
The scriptures NEVER come out and DIRECTLY SAY that Michael was his original name, so it SHOULDN'T be stated as
an absolute fact!
Buuuuuuuuuuut, since there is nothing at all in the Bible to even hint that Jesus was taking Michael's place (assuming Michael IS another
angel -messenger), changing ALL THE PROPHECIES that pointed to ONE PERSON in that role, it can be seen! Remember that Jesus is
now King, Savior, Father (only to mankind-Isa 9), Prince, High Priest/Mediator, and Leader (there are probably others that I have
forgotten for the moment! He has always been God's Son, and, it APPEARS-from the handful of references, the ArchAngel!
The most important fact is that Jesus is indusputably the one who leads God's angels at this time (Last Days)- and that is what the
title "Archangel" means!
Yet, even without the Bible DIRECTLY spelling that out for us, one can clearly SEE it!
I know who Michael is!
Lord knows I didn't want to believe it myself; I was a proud Catholic with a medallion of "St. Michael" around my neck, when JWs were
showing me what the scriptures ( Not Sister Mary Ethelberger- Nun / Principal of St. James Catholic Church of Orlando, 1950/60s)
said! After 3 years of arguing and prayer (Prayer with the &^%## Rosary), the Spirit got thru!!!
Here is an excert from Jude (KJV), with the verses before and after-
7-Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8-Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9-Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
**************************************************
My guess is that "the Lord" Michael refers to here, must to you, be Jesus. Correct, Beer? If so, remember that none in Heaven have been given
the Title-Name "Jesus Christ", none have been given all authority yet- so It WASN'T Christ Jesus- who would have that authority later!;it belonged ONLY to Jehovah....Michael's Lord- referred to here!
Now here is the interesting part: What name was God's Son known by? What fitting name would he likely have? I heard that- yes, it is NOT SPELLED OUT for us! Hmmm! I wonder what is the only name in the scriptures that would be fitting for the only one "Who Is Like God" ? Tough one! Did Jehovah give command of the angelic hosts to someone else? OOPS! It's not SPELLED OUT! Michael has that authority which is the next highest only to Jehovah Himself! So at this time was Jesus just a 'private' among the myraids of angels??????
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Once again, Jesus is the ONLY ONE ANYWHERE that is "Like God"!
Regarding Jesus being Mighty God (Isa (/John 1:1)....was MOSES God, too? Consider what God Himself said-
Exodus 7:1 (Darby Translation)
1- And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Kindest Regards, the Mad JW

Question for JWS and EXJWS

Exodus 7:1 (Darby Translation)

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