"pointless excessive force" = World Trade Center Destruction
reasonable force to contol a situation = Bombing Afghanistan military centers today
WELL, HERE WE GO...
by Michael3000 19 Replies latest jw friends
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Andee
Hello All,
Logical, you wrote,
When I see solid proof that the Taliban are harbouring the ALLEGED perpetrator of the 9-11 attacks, not likely though, its not in the interests of national security, the intelligence agencies or whatever. I reckon the US & GB are BLUFFING. They have no real conclusive evidence.
While watching CNN today I saw a recent video taped statement by Bin Laden. It was clear it was made after the 9-11 bombings.
I can only paraphrase what was translated by the intrepreter, however, the overall message was, these attacks will keep happening as long as the US supports Israel and their occupation of Palestine, continues to enforce the embargo against Iraq, and has military presence on sacred soil (Saudi Arabia). Why would he say such things if he didn't take part in them? Just to puff out his chest?
Then, of course, he issued another edict for Jihad, and to kill all the "sinners" (non-muslims). That, my dear, be calling for the killin of YOU and ME.
You need "proof" the Taliban is harboring Bin Laden?? Come on, he is their GUEST.
IMHO, he has made a direct threat on the lives of me and my children.
I say...GO GET EM!
Andee
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safe4kids
(((logi))),
I don't like the idea of innocent people being killed either and I wish there was a peaceful way to resolve this without that happening. You say that bombing the military targets isn't the answer; I ask you then my friend, what is the answer? What solutions do you have for the situation? Reality as I see it is as Bin Laden claimed in the video released today, that the attacks and killing will continue...they need to be stopped. Logi, how do you stop fanaticals who believe they have god on their side and that they are engaged in a "holy" war?
I believe that the Taliban has sheltered some of the people responsible for the WTC attacks; if that makes me blinded by the media, so be it. But remember, they were given two weeks to respond to the demands our gov't made and they chose not to do so. Then today, by Osama's own admission, we hear that the Americans are finally getting a taste of what his people have dealt with and that the attacks will continue...how chilling. Fanatics/monsters like him need to be stopped; in my opinion, he is just like Hitler and I really don't think a peaceful attempt to stop Hitler would have been effective.
Again, tho Logi...I am curious what alternatives you think there might be that would bring a peaceful resolution to the situation.Take care, my friend,
Dana
"...I'd walk with my people if I could find them..."
Third Eye Blind, Deep Inside of You
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Michael3000
For Naeblis, REM, Xena & others who resonded to ILLogical's retort to my thread: THANK YOU!!!
I'm glad some of us are on the same page. ILLogical's world view is obviously skewed a bit. The attack on military installations and terrorist training centers in Afghanistan is not a knee-jerk reaction to the WTC & Pentagon attacks. They are precise, selected targets, meant to cripple further terrorist attacks here and elsewhere. The US waited for more then 3 weeks, gathering as much intelligence as possible on who could be held responsible for the attacks on America. All evidence pointed to Osama bin Laden and the Al Qaeda terrorist network that he heads. That videotaped taunt that aired yesterday only makes it more apparent that he was behind, or at the very least, is supportive of those same attacks. Justice must prevail here, and sometimes it ain't pretty. But Bush gave the Taliban fair warning about the consequences of harboring bin Laden & other terrorists, so now they must be dealt with.
And, ILLogical, as for being "blinded" or "brainwashed" by the media - I think the majority of those posting here are balanced, level-headed folk, who are intelligent enough to not rely on ONE source of information, and can distinguish between what's really going on in the world, and the hype that the media sometimes feeds us. I don't know what planet you're from, but here on Earth we like to see justice take place when crimes against humanity are committed. What bin Laden and his minions did on 9/11 were atrocities against ALL of us - not just the American capitalistic system or its governments.
When the ugly face of terrorism shows itself in YOUR neck of the woods, I'd be interested to see if you hold the same position as you do now.
--Michael
"Any day spent NOT knocking on doors is a good day!"
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Julie
Logical,
I understand your aversion to violence. God has nothing to do with any of this horror that goes on in the world, it's just us. The thing of it is though dear is that if one doesn't react to such attacks as the US has recently suffered then they jsut continue. I mean think of the times nations would have been taken over if they hadn't fought back. While the US is hardly an innocent lamb in world affairs we should be glad to see the government's awareness of the World's view of us is improved. Much effort has been made to carefully target military installations only and you can bet there aren't innocent women and children there.
You insist on proof but very little of it can be published without giving away sources. When you are dealing with slimey specimens like the Taliban and bin Ladin you must realize youcan present all the proof you want they will dismiss it and/or decree it is fake. It is a cold cruel world and if a nation wants to survive, much less thrive, such things must be addressed in severe ways. Don't waste your tears on those Taliban lunatics, instead weep for the 15,000 kids who are now missing a parent.
Closer--
rofl, good one.
Love to all-
Julie -
Robdar
This argument sounds like the same crap that I heard in the 60's during Viet Nam.
"Ha'Shem hu ha'Elokim"
Robdar -
roybatty
I wonder what kind of world we'd be living in right now if it weren't for men like General Patton. Here's a portion of his speech to the 3rd army...
"I don't want to get any messages saying, 'I am holding my position.' We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!"
There's a time for war and a time for peace. Right now is a time for war. It's the only language that certain people understand, wheather they be Nazi fascists or religious extremists.
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Brutus
Logical,
You are truly ONE IGNORANT DUMB FUCK!!! Did you even watch Bin Laden's speech. He totally admitted he was behind the Sept. 11th attacks.Here's what he said
Here is America struck by God Almighty in one of its vital organs, so that its greatest buildings are destroyed. Grace and gratitude to God. America has been filled with horror from north to south and east to west, and thanks be to God that what America is tasting now is only a copy of we have tasted.
Our Islamic nation has been tasting the same for more than 80 years, of humiliation and disgrace, its sons killed and their blood spilled, its sanctities desecrated.
God has blessed a group of vanguard Muslims, the forefront of Islam, to destroy America. May God bless them and allot them a supreme place in heaven, for He is the only one capable and entitled to do so. When those have stood in defense of their weak children, their brothers and sisters in Palestine and other Muslim nations, the whole world went into an uproar, the infidels followed by the hypocrites.
A million innocent children are dying at this time as we speak, killed in Iraq without any guilt. We hear no denunciation, we hear no edict from the hereditary rulers. In these days, Israeli tanks rampage across Palestine, in Ramallah, Rafah and Beit Jala and many other parts of the land of Islam, and we do not hear anyone raising his voice or reacting. But when the sword fell upon America after 80 years, hypocrisy raised its head up high bemoaning those killers who toyed with the blood, honor and sanctities of Muslims.
I seek refuge in God against them and ask Him to let us see them in what they deserve.’The least that can be said about those hypocrites is that they are apostates who followed the wrong path. They backed the butcher against the victim, the oppressor against the innocent child. I seek refuge in God against them and ask Him to let us see them in what they deserve.
I say that the matter is very clear. Every Muslim after this event (should fight for their religion), after the senior officials in the United States of America, starting with the head of international infidels, Bush and his staff who went on a display of vanity with their men and horses, those who turned even the countries that believe in Islam against us — the group that resorted to God, the Almighty, the group that refuses to be subdued in its religion.
They have been telling the world falsehoods that they are fighting terrorism. In a nation at the far end of the world, Japan, hundreds of thousands, young and old, were killed and (they say) this is not a world crime. To them it is not a clear issue. A million children (were killed) in Iraq, to them this is not a clear issue.
‘These events have divided the world into two camps, the camp of the faithful and the camp of infidels.’But when a few more than ten were killed in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, Afghanistan and Iraq were bombed and hypocrisy stood behind the head of international infidels, the modern world’s symbol of paganism, America, and its allies.
I tell them that these events have divided the world into two camps, the camp of the faithful and the camp of infidels. May God shield us and you from them.
Every Muslim must rise to defend his religion. The wind of faith is blowing and the wind of change is blowing to remove evil from the Peninsula of Mohammad, peace be upon him.
As to America, I say to it and its people a few words: I swear to God that America will not live in peace before peace reigns in Palestine, and before all the army of infidels depart the land of Mohammad, peace be upon him.
God is the Greatest and glory be to Islam. -
dubla
these anti-war threads are more and more ridiculous to me every time i read them. bin laden has declared war on the u.s. some time ago, and has said recently that the u.s. cannot expect to feel secure until all infidel armies leave the holy land. he has declared war on us, and now we are in the process of trying to disrupt his (and other) organization(s) in order to help prevent more attacks on the u.s. its that simple. many are spouting off about the actions being taken against afghanistan, and about all the innocent lives that will be lost.
8) Now they understand that it is possible to deal with situations without pointless excessive force.
if its so possible to deal with these situations without excessive force, then what is your proposed solution? so many speak out against "pointless excessive force", and i have yet to hear ONE, even ONE viable means of preventing further attacks WITHOUT using force on the terrorist camps.
aa
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jsinger
First of all Logical, the capital city of Afghanistan is KABUL, not Tabul. Might want to try watching CNN a little closer and paying a bit more attention.