So many JW coming to my door/Who is Mediator for Great Crowd?

by Guest with Questions 12 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Guest with Questions

  I’ve had a number of witnesses come to my door in the last year. I would guess that my mother requested the visits but I don’t know for sure.

  I first had two young men come to the door last summer and we talked for quite a while. They couldn’t answer my questions and said they would come back. They never did.

  In the fall another gentlemen came and I asked a few questions. He said he would come back and leave the information in the mail box which he did, but he didn’t answer my questions. He never came back.

  A few weeks ago a lady came to my door. I asked her a number of questions. She said she would come back but I will be really surprised if she showed up.

  Oh, the gentlemen that didn’t come back last fall did come back last week with his wife. I mentioned to them that another lady was coming back on the 10 th . I thought they were organized. Why am I getting these people coming to my door in such a short period of time?

  What I find is that all these people are not up front with me. They all seem like sincere, kind people but they talk in circles. I can’t get a straight answer from any of them.

  I asked the one lady who her Mediator was and she said Jesus. So I asked her again and she said that she wanted to simplify it but that her Mediator was not Jesus but the Organization. Why couldn’t she have said that right from the beginning?

  When I mentioned this to the gentlemen and his wife, they said that it was Jesus who was our Mediator and that this other lady probably was setting things up a certain way that they weren’t sure of but that this other lady was very knowledgable.

  This is just one of the many questions I have. My understanding is that the org states that Jesus is Mediator only for the 144,000 and that the Mediator for the Great Crowd is the organization.

  (Worldwide Security under the "Prince of Peace"" (1986) p.10 - ""Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.") Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31

  "Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?

  …… So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

  ……The "great crowd"" of "other sheep"" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the ""little flock"" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant."

  Watchtower 1979 November 15 p.27 Benefiting from ""One Mediator Between God and Men""

  ""They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the ""chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.""——1 Pet. 2:9.

  24 Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the ""alien resident"" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.——Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15.

  25 To keep in relationship with ""our Savior, God,"" the ""great crowd"" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites.""

  Yet the bible states: 1 Tim.2:5,6; "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"

  Is the above quote wrong or have they changed this (new light)?

  Some might say don't answer the door when they come. If this lady does come next week I doubt that I will answer the door again after that. It feels like they don't really listen to you. They just talk over you. I know I can't change their minds. They are convinced that they have the truth.

  It just breaks my heart that my mother falls for this. I really thought that I had her thinking. When I asked her about the Alpa & Omega she did say that she did question it, plus she believed that the Mediator was Jesus. When I asked her a few days later if she had asked her husband (who is an Elder) she just said that she totally believed in the Organization. I do know that I can get into trouble with her husband if I ask questions and he may not allow me to see her.
• 

  sspo

  They really do not have the answers to your questions so that's why they don't show up and of course they have blind faith in the governing body.

  very sad
• 

  Fred E Hathaway

  to Guest with Questions:

  If you answer the door, that's a good start. But it's easier to make sense of the Bible in a discussion with JWs if you have a NWT, try to find to answers for yourself using the cross-references and the Index at the back of it. Also, sitting in the meetings with a notebook and pen helps. As well, if you're at a meeting, you are welcome to arrive 15 minutes early and stay at least 15 minutes late talking with them and having them show you around. I hope these tips help. After all, Keep on ASKING, SEEKING, and KNOCKING (Matthew 7:7-12) is a good way to get the answers we're looking for.
• 

  fullofdoubtnow

  Hi Guest with Questions, and welcome to the forum

  Ignore what Fred said, he means well, but he is just as hoodwinked as the jws that keep on appearing at your door are.

  What you wrote here

  It feels like they don't really listen to you. They just talk over you.

  That is exactly what most jws do. They usually have a set script to work from, and if you ask too many questions, they tend to retreat and leave you alone afterwards, hoping that if someone else you might just listen to what they have to say rather than questioning it. As you have probably noticed, they like to dominate conversations, and are somewhat put out when not allowed to do so.

  My advice would be not to bother answering the door to them. I very much doubt they will have any satisfying answers for your questions. After all, they can only give you the watchtower's answer, they are completely unable to delve into the scriptures themselves and answer your questions from their own understanding.

  Linda
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Keep on ASKING, SEEKING, and KNOCKING (Matthew 7:7-12) is a good way to get the answers we're looking for.

  Fred - Somehow I doubt Jesus was referring to; 1) Using the NWT, 2) Having a pen and paper to ask and learn in Jw recruiting meeting, 3) An inspection of the KH.

  Of course Jw's would not ever consider that such Seeking, Asking, and Knocking applies to Jesus, since they are forbidden from a relationship with Him. How sad indeed.

  Jeff
• 

  blondie

  Most JWs are not prepared to answer any hard questions. They are not trained to answer hard questions because they assume they know more than any non-JW about the Bible.

  There are also red flag questions that perhaps mean the person asking is an "apostate" or is reading "apostate" literature and if anyone does go back it should be an elder. The average JW assumes or is told that such people don't really want to learn anything but only create doubts.

  Noteworthy is that the WT publication designed to help JWs answer the "harder" questions of people at their doors, "Reasoning from the Scriptures," does not address this question. The only place 1 Timothy 2:5 is discussed is under the "Images" category where it discusses prayer.

  *** rs p. 184 par. 7 Images ***

  1 Tim. 2:5, JB: "There is only one God, and there is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus." (There is no allowance here for others to serve in the role of mediator for the members of Christ’s congregation.)

  Whether new or old-timer JWs, when they hear "mediator" and "Jesus" they think of praying through Jesus. But in reality the WTS teaches that Jesus is the mediator of the "new covenant" in which only JWs who profess to be anointed benefit. I bet that at the recent "memorial" the speaker did not mention that Jesus was the "mediator" only for the anointed.

  The concept of Jesus not being their mediator makes many JWs, old and new, think that you are saying that they do not pray through Jesus..................which is not of course the WT spin on this doctrine. The last time this question was directly addressed in the WT publications was 1989. It is easy to see how even older JWs don't understand official WTS teaching on this.

  Any questions about:

  1) Trinity

  2) Born again

  3) Questioning the validity of the NWT

  4) Questioning the need for an organization

  5) Any questions about the history of the WTS

  You can ask a question but they expect you to only listen to what they have to say, not a discussion. If a person "studies" out of one of their books, no extra questions are allowed except on their timetable.

  Here is a website that might be helpful is seeing how JWs dance around an answer to many questions.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/questions.htm

  The quote below illustrates how the WTS (Jehovah's organization--remember all other religions are false and not from God)

  *** w98 8/15 p. 20 par. 19 Strengthening Our Confidence in God’s Righteousness ***

  Jehovah’s organization does not discourage sincere, timely questions, as some opposers mistakenly claim. (1 Peter 1:10-12) However, the Bible counsels that we avoid foolish, speculative questions. (Titus 3:9) Asking reasonable questions and searching God’s Word and Christian (WTS) publications to find Scriptural answers can increase our accurate knowledge and can thus strengthen our confidence in Jehovah. The organization follows the example of Jesus. He refrained from commenting on questions for which the proper time for answering had not arrived. He explained: "I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present." (John 16:12)

  Blondie
• 

  Friendfriend

  Good Morning:
  It allows to give my opinion me: What I find unjust is the following one: If one Jehovah' Witness to participate in martial arts or dances sexys with clothes kolants, it can be dissociated, however, Your ancients had rented a Your temple (Kingdom'Hall)) that they considered \ “old \” in the Porto Feliz City, SP, Brazil ,for the same things and had not been dissociated and nor reprehended. It is not unjust this? Another example: If one t.J leaves for there nailing that” the end of the world comes in this weekend, the anciãos can until dissociating it”, however, “ faithfull and discreet slave” wrote book´s millions affirming that “the day of Jehovah and the end of the Christianity would be in the twenty century (look KJ 200) and had not been dissociated. Spreading liar is crime, wise person? It is not unjust this. And You if ahead to silence of this everything, does not find that they will have that to give to accounts Jehovah for “connivance”? It will be that it is not because of that they forbid You Jehovah’ Witness to read or to write in the Internet ?
• 

  jgnat

  It feels like they don't really listen to you. They just talk over you.

  You put to so succinctly, and so true. Instead of bible questions (which can get your mom in trouble), how about questioning her about what attracted her to the witnesses in the first plae? What is the great need that they satisfied?
• 

  Quandry

  If you answer the door, that's a good start. But it's easier to make sense of the Bible in a discussion with JWs if you have a NWT, try to find to answers for yourself using the cross-references and the Index at the back of it. Also, sitting in the meetings with a notebook and pen helps. As well, if you're at a meeting, you are welcome to arrive 15 minutes early and stay at least 15 minutes late talking with them and having them show you around. I hope these tips help. After all, Keep on ASKING, SEEKING, and KNOCKING (Matthew 7:7-12) is a good way to get the answers we're looking for.

  Yes, yes, but the above doesn't answer your question, does it? This advice would probably render a continuation of the "answers" you've been getting. Not answers, really, just, "Come to the Kingdom Hall, take notes, and KEEP ASKING."

  Of course, if you are a witness, as your mother is, the admonition to "keep asking" can get you into a lot of trouble. When I was going to the Kingdom Hall, and first heard this-that Jesus was not my mediator, first I was taken aback. I reread the scripture that says that there is ONE mediator between God and man, and yep-it said JESUS. But, now, I was being told that the 144,000 as a class-read Governing Body-were my mediators. Everything that I believe and the judgement as to whether I am a fit human being must go through this class. They will determine if my prayers are sufficient, etc. I knew I was reading something in the Bible that didn't fit with what the WT said ......BUT!!! I knew enough NOT TO ASK QUESTIONS as that would definitely mark me as one who is disobedient, and a questioner of DIVINE TRUTH. My husband was an elder-I was even afraid to speak to him about it very much.

  I know that this "new light" troubles many witnesses. If I were you, I would not get off into many other questions with mom. I would continue to ask mom to research this question--the elder husband too. How is this so? Who specifically is your mediator?? Through whom should you pray? How are the 144,000 your mediator while on earth?? Why did Jesus say that there was ONE mediator, him, when clearly the WT says differently? Can they show you how to answer the question using only the Bible?

  Please let us know what you find out.

  Just a side note--I think the JWs still think that each creative day was 7,000 years long and obviously this does not account for dinosaurs or ancient plant life. Some time you could ask about that.
• 

  johnny cip

  Guest with questions: you asked one of the questions a jw CANNOT ANSWER using just the bible. it seem you know this topic well, stick with your topic ,learn it inside and out. and pound it into the ground with jw's. never let up , push it on them till they fold. never let them change topics. you have already won any arguement with them, just on one topic. remind them of they can't understand this simple teaching that are not qualified to even go into anyother subject as they reject jesus as mediator and they not in the new covent. ask them what covenant are they in? you got them between a rock and a hard place. you need nothing else. you have exposed them. check mate. john