Holidays

by BR25 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jgnat

  disrespectful to celebrate things that dont have a great beginning.

  I've taken the other approach. No matter what the origins, if what we celebrate today is harmless, who cares?

  If you investigate the origins of nearly EVERYTHING we do today, you will find the pagans. After all, they were around before the Christians. AGRICULTURE has it's origins with the pagans. BARBECUES have their origins with pagans. TIES have their origins with the pagans. WEDDING RINGS, HANDSHAKES, and MILKSHAKES all have pagan origins.

  What you gonna do? Sit in the dark eating nuts and berries?

  these same people are looking up how some of jws beliefs started

  Maybe because of the hypocrisy of the JW's? They claim divine origins, and the rest of Christendom, corrupt. Yet there's as much bad history (bad marriages, affairs, and blasphemy) in the Watchtower society as anywhere else. I say, then, they cannot claim divine origin, but must roll in the dust with the rest of humanity.

  On a serious note, it does pay to look at the origins of an organization. Some groups who started well include the Wesleyans, the Salvation Army, the Quakers. Sometimes they started out well but got lost along the way. Before the JW's got ahold of it, the pattern of great beginnings, followed by apathy, decline, and renewal is a biblical pattern. One might even say it's a sign we are human. Before the JW's got ahold of the concept, I consider this a great reassurance that people can break free from their failings and start again. Sadly, the JW's have twisted this pattern to condemn all who failed; this includes the Jews and the Catholics of course.

  As we know, anyone who points out the failings of others has four more pointing back at him. The Watchtower society is a prime example of this.

  Why not another day????

  Because when a community picks a day and celebrates it together, it becomes a way of reminding us of how far we have come, and what has come before. It unifies us as a culture.

  Tell me, Isreal had a dozen celebrations to mark the seasons and to remember. Why do the JW's have only one?
• 

  BR25

  Why doesnt god sweat it because man says its ok? All I am saying is people try to make it so great and full of praise, but noone has changed the day of the celebrations. You are probably right though jesus would probably enjoy being celebrated on these days. Take the gifts out of christmas, and taking the devil and skeleton dressing out of halloween, not only between the children but also my 60 yr. old neighbors, there would be no big deal anyways. I guess it is ok to do these things just because the children like it, but alot of people say they would celebrate christmas if you took out the gifts, so then they would be celebrating it without the regards to its beginning.
• 

  jgnat

  so then they would be celebrating it without the regards to its beginning

  Rightfully so. As we do with most things.
• 

  EnlightenedMind

  I am sorta of a hypocrit on this subject though. I have celebrated it the last few years, and yeah it is a blast, but in the back of my mind I know it is disrespectful no matter what religion you are from.

  Some of us have reached a point in our personal development where we can do things once forbidden by WBTS without the programmed reaction of guilt or shame. I hope that one day you can reach that some point.
• 

  LittleToe

  Surely the point is that if you do something to "praise" then simply put you are praising. If another person does it to enjoy excess, then that is their perogative. Or have you forgotten so quickly the words of Paul at Rom.14:5, 6:

  One [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind.

  He who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, he who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and he who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God. (NWT)

  I guess its ok to quote that scripture when you want to use it get around celebrating a weekly Sabbath. How come it isn't just as appropriate to use it the other way around with various festivals? Read the context to see that Paul had a wider undertanding of it, also.
• 

  avidbiblereader

  I dont celebrate the holidays and my wife and family is fine with that. I have my father in law who says as soon as he can stop he will, he said he envys me, but I studied the about holidays without the witnesses and whether it is ok or wrong, I see the many who hate the holiday season for the MONETARy reasons.

  I have no problem as Jgnat, said to get together for family and friends, but I don't celebrate with gifts or decorating.

  Why start now I ask myself/

  abr
• 

  White Dove

  How many of us knew that December 25th was of pagan origin when we first celebrated it? How many of us celebrated it on the 25th BECAUSE it was of pagan origin? I will bet: not many if any at all. Do the pagans control it now??? NO. They do the solstice thing and it looks a bit different. Same day? SO WHAT?!
• 

  BR25

  If you celebrate it to celebrate I guess it dont matter as much, but for those who set it aside as some major religious day than yes it should be taken into consideration, and all these ones should know the beginning as holy of a day its made to be. The gifts, the commercialism, oh well, but those ones make it a religious day how can you. So is Halloween ok too.

  Now this is what gets me. Some of my buddies just visited me and they are like major christian people. There were 4 of them, I knew 3 of them, but the forth I had never met. He was like Mr. Christian. We were playing cards and we got on the topic of religion. We got on the topic of religion because ( you guys will like this part) sometimes they call me Knock Knock. So he asked me why and the conversation began. We got on the topic of christmas and I explained why we dont celebrate it, and he basically defended himself pretty much the way everyone does on here origin doesnt matter and so forth. Everyone agreed with him of course. So I asked everyone at the table if they celebrated halloween and I purposely asked him last because he was like speaker of the house for them. The other 3 said yes. I think he might have thought I was asking him as a trick question, because I immediately went from talking about one holiday to the next and because I asked him last ,well he says with hesitation no i dont. So I am already confused because they all have the same beliefs, but did not agree. I turned the tables on him very nicely. Well, I said you told me that the origin of christmas and how it began has no affect on how it is viewed today, so I asked why then does that not apply to Halloween? The room got quiet for a second and the subject was changed. I was so glad he said no. Manipulation is great.
• 

  funkyderek

  BR25:

  My question is (whatever your beliefs may be) what % of people who celebrate christmas, if you took the presents out of christmas would still acknowledge christmas as much as they do now? NOTE: as much. Be honest. I will go with 10-15 percent.

  Probably very few. As you've researched the origins of Christmas you'll know it goes back to solstice celebrations. The darkest coldest time of the year is of course the signal that the worst is over and the days are starting to get longer again. Most cultures have celebrated this time with feasting and gift exchange. It's a way of acknowledging our triumph over adversity for another year. In most Western countries, Christmas is now an official holiday, meaning most people can have a few days off to spend with their loved ones, something that can be a logistical nightmare any other time of year. Few of the traditions associated with Christmas have much to do with Jesus, but they don't have a lot to do with paganism either.

  I don't believe in gods, but any who would be offended because they're being worshipped on the wrong date strike me as too petty and parochial to deserve worship.
• 

  Crumpet

  don't believe in gods, but any who would be offended because they're being worshipped on the wrong date strike me as too petty and parochial to deserve worship.

  And anyway since humans invented the calendar and not the gods - then our dates wouldn't have any meaning to them would they?