At a loss...HELP

by esw1966 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  esw1966

  Hi,

  I have left jw for 2 years now. I have been divorced now for 2 years. I have 3 children; 14, 12, 9 - all girls. They live in Wisconsin and I now live in Washington. Dad and sister lost to the society and they do not talk to me.

  I am trying to figure out what to do for my kids.

  I am really hung up lately on the idea that I have lost them all. My dad and sister do not respond to letters. My kids came out last December for 10 tens. Now they have less to do with me than they did BEFORE the visit.

  The visit seemed good. We had our ups and downs but everyone met each other half way and the visit was successful even though I had to give in to them and let them leave 2 days early. Give a little, get a little.

  Well, the two older ones are getting baptized on the 29th. I see things going the way of my father and sister and being ignored and shunned one day.

  I wanted them to come out this summer. They found the whole thing very 'truamatic' and 'cry' at the thought of coming out here.

  Their request is that I go visit them. It will cost me more to visit them for a short period of time and I will accomplish less than if they come out here and stay with me longer.

  I am feeling like I am always making concessions for them and in the end what will I get for it - shunned and ignored.

  How far should I be going for this relationship? I feel used and abused. Phone calls are tough as it seems none want to talk to me. They are negative, but then get better.

  They have a lot of anger about the divorce and now my change of religion.

  At times I see them and I on different sides of an issue that can never be breached. I then feel like giving up all this fight for a relationship with my children.

  My fiancee wants me to do the right thing and go visit them. I will probably end up doing this, but under protest yet with a positive face. I feel that this is more controlling from them. I hate being manipulated by them and then getting hurt in the end. Last time I went there to see the kids she sent them to Illinois during my visit. So, I sometimes wish to cut my losses and leave them out of my life and remember the good times I once had them as they are now lost to me.

  This drama is bringing out more anger in me about the control that all those people back there had on me, my father and the elders, the in-laws. What am I fighting for? What can I expect to gain? Can I gain my kids?

  My thoughts as I write this is to give them up to the religion and try to keep a relationship with them. Can that even be done? I hate the thought of losing them to a destructive organization. I was hoping to help them. Now do I have to help them by letting them make their own bad decisions?

  I feel as if my resources could be used for something better than them. That is how they see me. They don't do anything for me. Why should I be doing anything for them?

  I guess I am hurt and all I see is myself getting hurt further by trying to keep them for myself and I can't bear letting them go; being absorbed by the borg.

  It's been a hard night and I hope things will look better in the morning. I am at a loss and my thoughts are not coherent now. My feelings are just that. Feelings. Hopefully tomorrow I will have a more realistic thought on all of this.

  My fiancee and ex had a long im chat trying to come to some sort of an agreement. We plain old see things from two different perspectives. Can the two meet? If not, what are my chances for my kids? If my chances are not good with my children, how far should I be going before I end up hurting myself? As a dad, you should be going to the point of death. Am I being too stubborn or selfish? What is my responsibility here?

  I don't know what to do and at the moment I just want to chuck all the old memories of the relationships in jw that I had including my kids and family and start anew.

  What is a person to do?

  Thanks for reading this long and incoherent message. I look forward to hearing some of your responses. I'm sure that we have all gone through things like this from time to time.

  Thanks again!

  Ethan
• 

  onlycurious

  Hello again,

  I am sorry about your dilemna. It is always hard when something like this effects your relationship with your immediate family, especially your children.

  I guess the best advice I can offer you as a fellow believer is to continue practicing 'handing it over' to the Lord. He completely understands your heartache and will be the only real source of deep rooted comfort. The kind of comfort that the Bible speaks about. You know, the peace that surpasses all understanding.

  Your children will see the Holy Spirit in you, something vastly different that what they are being taught in their congregation. Pray that God will be a light shining through you and that your children will note a difference in you from who you were before you were saved.

  I don't know that you need to be 'daddy evangelist' either. If they ask questions, share from your heart. Otherwise, let God do the work.

  Also, have you ever considered fasting in prayer? You may want to take this opportunity and learn more about that if you don't know much about it.

  Hope this helps.

  If your girls come to visit you, I have a great family resort in Southwest WA that they would love. It's A LOT of fun here in the summer time and I can try to give you a great rate!
• 

  AudeSapere

  Hi Ethan -

  I don't think I have any answers for you but a few questions came up for me. Don't know if they have any bearing on what to do but may help identify some opportunities for you:

  Are you living with your fiance?

  I will guess that you are living together because she and your ex had a long IM session. Doesn't seem to the responsibility of your fiance to 'deal' with your ex.

  Why did your wife send the kids to Illinois on your last visit? Was your fiance with you??

  Were the kids allowed to attend the local KH when the visited you? (I'm not sure I'd be too quick to take them there, but just wondering. It might help them feel more comfortable visiting you. - But I don't know.

  When they visited in December, did you celebrate Christmas? Where there lots of presents and decorations? (Too many may make them feel uncomfortable, confused and guilty and may account for the 'traumatic' feelings and 'crying' at the thought of going back especially when you say the older two are planning on getting baptized.)

  The answers to these questions may help direct other responses.

  -Aude.
• 

  Bryan

  Ethan,

  I went through the exact same thing. I was divorced when my daughter was 3. I remember one time driving over an hour to pick her up for the weekend (she was 8) and she started crying; she wanted to go home. I turned around and took her home; no bad feelings. We had a long distant relationship also for several years. It was me against the influence of her her mother, grandmother and about 20 cousins, aunt's and uncles. I decided I would not put pressure on her. I would lead by example. It didn't work. She came so close to leaving at age 18, but she told her mother she was moving in with me and she got the guilt trip with the "God's gonna kill you" speach. She called me crying, telling me she didn't want to die. At 19 I received a letter saying she was about to wed and I was not invited. She has not spoken to me for over two years.

  I don't know what to say. I don't think forcing them to do anything will help. Everything you do, seen as negative by them, will be explained to them as the devil's influence on their apostate father, whom Jehovah can't wait to get his teeth into.

  Keep the lines of communication open and going often. Go see them if you can afford it. By the time they hit their later teens, they may see things differently and question more. With you so far away your ex is driving the boat.

  By the way... I have just moved to WA. SE side.

  Best,

  Bryan
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  Hortensia

  well, if you keep hurling yourself at a brick wall you'll just get bloody and bruised. Maybe some distance and some counseling would help. Maybe just keep in touch, keep it nice and loving, tell them you'd like to see them but you understand if they can't make it, that you love them no matter how things change, etc. you can keep the connection until something gets better. I don't really have a clue, except I think counseling is a good idea, an outsider with some knowledge of human nature can be really really helpful. I'm sorry you are in such a tough situation - you're a dad so you can't cut yourself off from your children even if they cut themselves off from you. They may regret that some day and then your loving attitude would make it easier for them to reconcile.

  I've read posts by different folks on this forum who have taken that stance - no matter how you feel right now, I still love you and I'm available if you want to reconnect. I find that admirable, I think it has a chance of working.
• 

  esw1966

  Yes, I am living with my fiance. I have not PUT her in a place to help, but she has desired and longed for it to help make peace between me and my kids. My ex and her actually get along very well. My fiance is a good mediator for two sides who can't talk. I do think she is of much more help to the situation than a hinderance. ALL my family responded very well to her and actually ended up trusting HER more than me. So, no, it is not her responsibility, but she is someone all sides have seen as a help.

  Yes, my fiance was with me on the last trip. The last trip was for my divorce hearing. My sister from Illinois was there to help support my ex and when she had to go home, she called her back from her drive home to come back and get the girls. I still don't have an answer as to why she did it. The girls and I had a nice visit the night before and we were going to go shopping the following day. I was told I would have the time, but didn't get it.

  Actually, the girls ended up NOT wanting to go to the hall with us. We ended up being the ones to be really recommending going to the hall. I had previously brought them there when it was closed so they would be familiar with it.

  Yes, we had Christmas. Not TOO many presents. At first, they said they wanted to try Christmas as they had never done it before, but then later said they didn't want it.

  Hope the extra info helps!

  Thanks again!
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  anewme

  I think you have no choice but to fly out to Wisconsin as often as possible to see your kids and bring them gifts and play with them and shower them with love. I think that will pay off in the long run.
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  JWdaughter

  They are kids, you are the grownup. They will say and do a lot of things they don't 'mean'. They may say/do certain things now, but if you cave now, you will regret it forever. They will remember less what they said to keep away and more that you KEPT away. I don't know about the ex. Sending them away when she knows you are coming to see them? Doesn't sound to supportive or helpful. She is probably making nice and doing her best to disintegrate your relationship and influence on the girls when you are not there-which is ALWAYS. I don't know what visiting rights and custody is, but you need to exercise your rights to see your kids. And, I think that you should talk to the ex about her discouraging baptism until they are 18. God knows their hearts, but you will be shunned by underage children (they DON'T live in your household and will feel no obligation to even be civil if they are typical JW). It is in their best interests, in every way, to hold off on baptism. I think your ex is playing games. Fight for your kids-if you don't, the only thing they will remember is that you didn't. That is not to say be ugly, go to court. Yet. Maybe the ex doesn't realize how damaging this will be to them. You need to have a heart to heart with her about your concerns and see where her influence is really directed. Just my opinion. Best to you about the girls!

  Shelly
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  bluebell

  Getting baptized at 14 + 12 ow :( I would try and visit/keep communication open as much as possible. If you are legally allowed to visit them but they are told to shun you by their mom, is there a legal way to make sure you still get to communicate?
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  unique1

  I agree with some of the previous posters. you should go to court and get set visitation times that she has to abide by. Whether they be twice a year once at your place once at theirs or a vacation spot. Something. Also ask the court that they not be able to shuck seeing you until they are of adult age unless they are sick or there is a true emergency. You need to keep the visits up. When they misstep as a teenager, and most of us do, they will have you to fall back on.