Heeey Marcel:
I was rolling around in insanity for a few minutes there after learning from jwfacts that the BIBLE NEVER applied to ME and the other peons in the org! OMG! Knock me silly!
Breathe...
OK, Ahhh Hummmm, now I'm composed. Let's continue... (lol).
You wrote:
[...]
i dont get it abbagail.
you basically say the gentiles will reign over the jews?! or who in fact will have the earthly hope?
sorry, but for it sounds very weired and not refreshing. can you explain it for me a second time? =)
[...]
Absolutely, MY PLEASURE! ;-)
I don't know EVERYTHING, of course, have only been studying this for a year now, even though I was BLESSED to come to a general understanding of these things about a year and a half ago when I ran across this article and it was like, talk about LIGHT GETTING BRIGHTER! Wow! It just floored me because it made SO MUCH SENSE:
http://withchrist.org/images/IHC.jpg (that's a picture chart that will probably clear up your question more than everything I wrote below, lol)
http://withchrist.org/pauldisp.htm - article, and then scroll down for explanations of THE MYSTERY ("Sacred Secret"/NWT)
http://withchrist.org/dispensationalism.htm - other great articles from the same site,
and anything by Myles J, Stanford http://withchrist.org/MJS/newbirth.htm (scroll down);
or Les Feldick, great teachers: http://www.lesfeldick.org/lestimel.html (that's another chart for you that will clear up the Who's Who Goes Where ;-)
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It's hard to squeeze it all in in one post, so I did give the "abbreviated" version earlier, but I'll do my best to make it more clear and refreshing, because truly it IS refreshing (no more confusion, at least in my mind, as to different scriptures that always seemed to contradict each other, but that was only because we were always trying to apply them to the wrong groups, etc., so everything was always jumbled up, ESPECIALLY prophetic scriptures. Many Christian ministries and churches STILL teach that way, too, all jumbled up, but once you understand the simple scriptural fact to make note of WHO is TALKING/WRITING TO WHO (and the verses always SAY WHO they are addressed to):
1. That all the OT applies to Israel;
2. Then Jesus and the 12 apostles went to the House of Israel, too, so all their books apply to THEM;
3. But the Lord called out Paul specifically, the 13th apostle, to open up the way to the Gentiles/nations, so all his books apply to us (except Hebrews, which most feel was written by Paul, but it was written to, guess who... -- da dum... HEBREWS! ;-)
First a "book breakdown":
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These Books: --- Apply To:
GENESIS (promise to Abraham) thru Gospel of JOHN = HOUSE OF ISRAEL:
* Those Jews who believed ON JESUS also get the Heavenly Hope, but all the Jews who DID NOT and who DO NOT DOWN TO THIS DAY and THRU to the TRIB still do NOT put faith in JESUS, then they will NOT get the Heavenly Hope but WILL have OPPORTUNITY for the EARTHLY KINGDOM HOPE IF -- IF -- IF they become believers DURING the TRIB (the message is clear: It will be HARDER FOR THOSE WHO WAIT until DURING the trib).
* If they choose to NEVER believe in Jesus, not now, nor during the trib, then they will be part of the 2/3's that are lost forever, along with those of the nations/gentiles who refuse to believe up to and during the TRIB.
ACTS = TRANSITION PERIOD.
ROMANS to PHILEMON = Paul's letters to the GENTILE NATIONS, the "Church," the "BODY OF CHRIST," the "BRIDE OF CHRIST" -- AND this is important -- ALSO ANY JEWS WHO BECOME BELIEVERS during this "AGE OF GRACE" time-frame -- while it is STILL OPEN -- get the SAME HEAVENLY HOPE as the GENTILES (Paul also preached to Jews in their synagogues, but his PRIMARY commission was to go to the NATIONS).
HEBREWS - PETER - JAMES - JUDE - 1.2.3 JOHN - REVELATION = HOUSE OF ISRAEL:
* The 12 apostles NEVER went to the Gentiles throughout their lives, except the ONE time the Lord sent Peter to Cornelius as described further above. But ALL their minsitries and ALL their books were written to JEWISH BELIEVERS who still kept the law covenant, all the way up to when the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
* But the GENTILES who became believers when Paul was commissioned to go to them, they did NOT have to live according to law, even though the other apostles wanted them to very badly, until Peter backed up Paul (due to Peter's Cornelius experience which acted as a 2nd-witness, so to speak, of what Paul was telling them about accepting the Gentiles as believers w/o law ), and the matter was then settled: Gentiles are NOT under law but are UNDER GRACE (free gift, no "works" can get it for you, etc. -- and that right there is some GREAT NEWS! esp. coming out of WT World).
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Then the Temple is destroyed in 70 A.D., Israel enters diaspora, being dispersed throughout all the nations for a specific period of time (Rom. 11:25), the apostles are dying off (most already dead by that point) BUT the "AGE OF GRACE" or the "CHURCH AGE" and/or the "GENTILE AGE" (as it is sometimes called) is ONGOING UNTIL "the FULL number of people of the nations has come in" (Rom. 11:25b) "and IN THIS MANNER all Israel will be saved [in WHAT manner? ] JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN: 'THE DELIVERER [Jesus/Messiah] WILL COME OUT OF ZION and TURN AWAY UNGODLY PRACTICES FROM [who? FROM] JACOB." etc. etc. (Roms. 11:25-36).
So when ALL GENTILES who will believe are "come in" THEN God TURNS HIS ATTENTION BACK to LITERAL ISRAEL (Jacob). This "AGE OF GRACE" in which to bring in the GENTILES is THE "SACRED SECRET" (or MYSTERY as other translations say: http://withchrist.org/pauldisp.htm : scroll down half-way for all of Paul's Mysteries) that PAUL was DESCRIBING throughout his letters. NO ONE, NO OTHER APOSTLE was given this revelation about the AGE OF THE GENTILES/AGE OF GRACE, but only PAUL when he spent three years in the Arabian desert with the Lord. It's a beautiful MYSTERY indeed, and I finally grasp the exuberance Paul declares in Rom. 11:33-36 (which in WT years and thereafter, I never quite "got" what was so amazing, but THIS IS IT, THIS SACRED SECRET!)
That's why all the other Jewish apostles were freaked, because they NEVER HAD A CLUE that God was going to take a "TIME OUT" (so to speak) and put things on "HOLD" in order to allow TWO DAYS (2,000 years) to BRING IN the Gentiles. The apostles thought they were to witness to fellow Jews and get as many to come into belief as possible, then the Trib would occur and Jesus would be back. Period. They never had a clue 2,000 years would elapse first. (That's why they all talk in their books like the END is coming Soon Soon Soon, because they DIDn't KNOW). But the SACRED SECRET was known by God from the foundation of the world.
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Now, IF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL HAD totally put faith IN JESUS when He was here and in the few years afterward, then things would have occurred in the reverse, ie, ISRAEL would rule over the GENTILES from the get-go, as was prophesied in the OT that Israel would be the LIGHT UNTO THE GENTILES (and they still WILL BE eventually, but NOT at first). But they rejected Him for the MOST part, except a tiny few overall. So God knew this, of course, in advance, and that's the SACRED SECRET that He held in Himself until the right time, that He would "stop the Israel Timeclock" and OPEN the WAY for the Gentile Nations to be "reconciled" to Himself. This is also known as the AGE OF RECONCILIATION. A Christian's ministry during this Age of Grace is to RECONCILE people to God, "No Works Required" - It's a FREE GIFT.
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Sorry I can't do bold/underline/highlighting on this Mac, or I could make this look SO much better and easier to read.
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Hope I'm not confusing you. If I do those charts and links provided at the top should help.
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You had said: "you basically say the gentiles will reign over the jews?!"
Well, ALMOST. For the most part, there WILL be MORE GENTILE believers than JEWS (by sheer numbers there are more gentiles naturally than Jews, since Israel is a tiny nation in comparison to gentile nations), but there ARE Many Jews becoming believers, moreso as the time draws near. There are quite a few "Messianic Jewish" congregations round about, but, really, they do NOT have to live "under Jewish law" but it seems many of them LIKE the "trappings" of their past, but really, ALL JEWS are **CURRENTLY** welcome into the AGE OF GRACE and the BLESSED Heavenly Hope just like the Gentiles. (If they can break through that mental "veil" of rejecting Christ as their Messiah, that is.)
But when the BODY OF CHRIST (Gentiles AND Jews who have believed during the Age of Grace) are called to heaven to be with the Lord/raptured, and the TRIB begins, and the false-messiah comes onto the world stage, etc., then the AGE OF GRACE IS UP, and any who did NOT believe, Gentiles OR Jews, they will all be here on earth to endure the TRIB (and even thugh people CAN and WILL BECOME BELIEVERS DURING the Trib, Gentile OR Jew(great crowd), it WON'T BE FUN! Likely all those who come to faith in Christ during the Trib will be martyred for their faith during this last ONE WEEK/SEVEN YEAR Time Frame).
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As for who judges who, to finally answer your question! (sorry about that!):
When a person becomes a believer during the Age of Grace (since Paul began preaching to the Gentiles), the Jew and the Greek become "one new man" and there is "neither Jew nor Greek" in a spirirtual sense. But then in our "glorified bodies" (after the rapture or "snatching away" literally, for those "in Christ" who are alive when this occurs, and for those "in Christ" who are dead when the rapture occurs), we are neither Jew nor Greek PHYSICALLY EITHER, finally. So in a sense, we are at that time "heavenly creatures" just like Jesus in his glorified body since we will be just like Him and "see Him just as He is." That's the BLESSED HOPE for ALL BELIEVERS (Jews and Gentiles who come to faith during this AGE OF GRACE).
1 Cor 6:2,3 - Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to mention the things of this life?
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Think of God's time-frame since Creation (approximately and generally):
1. The PATRIARCHS AGE: 2000 years (Adam, Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Job, etc.)
2. The LAW COVENANT w/ISRAEL AGE: 2000 years (from Moses to Jesus)
3. The AGE OF GRACE/CHURCH AGE/GENTILE AGE: 2000 years (from Paul to the Rapture)
4. 1 week [7 years] TRIBULATION (first half of 3.5 years is Tribulation, 2nd half of 3.5 years is GREAT Tribulation).
Then you said:
"...or who in fact will have the earthly hope?"
Those Believers from #1 above have Earthly Hope.
Those Believers from #2 above have Earthly Hope.
Those from #3 above get the HEAVENLY HOPE (there was never a "heavenly hope" held out to anybody UNTIL Jesus came. All prior Godly men and women only knew of a resurrection to an EARTHLY HOPE).
Those from #4 above have Earthly Hope (great crowd of those who become believers during Trib made of up Jew and Gentile; however the 144,000 which are JEWISH VIRGIN MEN from the 12 TRIBES of ISRAEL and who follow the Lamb wherever He goes, are also sealed with the HEAVENLY hope).
So during the TRIB:
LARGE CROWD who become believers are saved to an EARTHLY HOPE, Jew and Gentile.
VERY SMALL CROWD of 144,000 Jewish Male Virgins are saved to a HEAVENLY HOPE.
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There really are lots of scriptures to go with all of this, but I'm too fried to search them all out. Those links at the top will help. There are also a LOT more great CHARTS that I have seen which clearly shows Who's Who and When and What. I have the links somewhere I'm sure, almost any "Grace Bible Church" will have charts at their websites. Also if you live anywhere in these viewing areas, follow along with this great teacher: http://www.lesfeldick.org, one-half hour a day, M-F. Tape it and just jump in. You'll learn fast and you'll LOVE IT.
I know you wrote more than those two lines, but this is long enough for now. I'll check with you another time.
Blessings,
/ag
