christianity

by BR25 41 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate

    Christianity.

    Founded on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

    Read about it first hand in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

    Read it from a Bible written in conversational English,

    After praying in faith for God's Holy Spirit,

    See if what you read about is different than what you were taught.

    Then read it again a few times, from other translations.

    See if what you read about continues to be different than what you were taught.

    Now do the same with the whole New Testament.

    Break out the concordances and commentaries to shed light on meaning and interpretation.

    If you do so, you'll learn more than you now know about Christianity.

    At some point, you'll need to decide to be a follower of one of the many Christian sects, or,

    continue to read and research, and most importantly practice, Christianity outside one of the many Christian sects.

    I chose the latter.

    Online sources:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/

    http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Catechism/bible.html

    http://www.ntgateway.com/bible.htm

    BA- Good luck.

    PS- It's a journey, not a destination.

  • Zico
    Zico

    : Is there nothing at all palpably substantial to be had in a Christian experience that demonstrates anything of actual importance other than attitude adjustment?

    You don't think attitude adjustment is significant?

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    dont these things seem just as wierd and if not more than what everybody says about jws

    It's all perspective. To me, handling snakes as a part of your worship is wierd. A buddy showed me a video of
    a church in Mexico where everybody walks in by taking two steps forward and one step back (reminder of Paula Abdul).
    That seemed wierd to me. To someone else on the other side of the world, every Christian act seems wierd.

    Now, that snake charmer doesn't seem so wierd to some from India. But what do you think they would say about a
    group of 300 people passing wine and crackers around, and nobody even considers partaking? Why are they there?

    What would some think of a religion that tells them what sex practices between a husband and wife should be
    avoided?

    Yeah, I see your point. There's wierd stuff all around us. I think it's wierd that a woman would want to go on national
    television and try to find their baby's daddy by admitting they slept with 16 guys who all need to be tested. But from
    her perspective, a 4000 year old book telling her she should be stoned for sleeping with even one of those guys is
    wierd.

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    It is a pity that none of the spiritual awakenings ever imparts a useful by-product such as increased I.Q., musical genius, sudden capactity to translate heiroglyphics or even skill in cooking souffle.

    All we get are goose bumps, a feeling of well-being and a lifetime of repeating the same amorphous tingly story.

    Sigh.

    Doesn't a stiff martini or smoking Maui-wowee have about the same redeeming social value?

    Really now.

    Is there nothing at all palpably substantial to be had in a Christian experience that demonstrates anything of actual importance other than attitude adjustment?

    Rembrandt, Bach, Handel, John Bunyan, Harriett Beecher Stowe, Fydor Dostoyevsky, Geaorge MacDonald, G.K. Chesterson, Dorothy Sayers, C.S. Lewis, Dante, Chaucer, George Herbert, John Milton, Isaac Watts, Charles Wesley, T.S. Eliot, John Woolman, William Wilberforce, Elizabeth Fry, Sojourner Truth, Lord Shaftesbury (Antony Ashley Cooper), William Gladstone, Harriet Tubman, Catherine Booth, William Booth, Walter Rauschenbusch, Francis Bacon, Galileo.

    Based on what I have just posted, the above poster is just another fulfillment of Romans 1:22

  • Junction-Guy
    Junction-Guy

    Weird is subjective, and what one person thinks is weird the other does not. The problem is when religions dominate their members lives to their detriment. Handling snakes is definitely dangerous, not just weird. Shouting in church, dancing in church are harmless. Telling people not to plan a career is disastrous, telling people to refuse blood is deadly.

    So I dont care if a persons religion is weird, however when a religion is detrimental to a child, in a tangeable way, that is where I draw the line.

    There is nothing wrong with "weird", different strokes for diffrerent folks. It's when the weird becomes destructive to the personal well being, and leaves the person suicidal, drug addicts, alcoholics, or in therapy for many years, that I have a problem with.

  • abbagail
    abbagail

    Hey BR25:

    I'm no expert with all "varieties" of churches and experiences out there, but I'll take a shot and throw out a few opinions:

    There seems to be about three major categories out there (minus Catholic churches which I cannot include for obvious reasons):

    The "traditional" more "normal" and/or more "formal" churches. (Look for "traditional" on their signs or yellow pages ads). And if you like to partake in the singing (say, as we did in KH's), look for "corporate singing" vs. being "entertained" by soloists or groups on the stage who "entertain" the congregation but the congregation doesn't get to join the hymns, which is what I prefer).

    Then there's the churches going a little out to the wild side. I'd call these Pentecostal/Charismatic types (though charimsatics are in almost ALL denominations these days). I'd guess these are more prone to jumping, shouting, speaking in tongues, being "slain in the spirit," having rock bands and more entertainment than edification in the Word.

    Then there's the Super-Charis-Mania churches who are off the deep end, with "holy laughter," rolling on the floor, gold dust falling from the ceiling, people morphing into animals, and all types of very creepy bizarre things. If they are of the "Pensacola/Toronto Revivial" crowd, you're in the devil's playground. Read this guy's personal story who was in churches like this for 12 years, six as a "elder": Charismatic Cultism by Kevin Reeves, author of "The Other Side of the River"
    http://www.theothersideoftheriver.com/Articles/Cultism.shtml

    ------------

    There are other "subsets," too, such as the "Purpose Driven Crowd" -- big mega churches that are more like Disneyland with playgrounds and coffeshops and what-not where they are more interested in satisfying every carnal need than spirituality. They are also "works driven" and "Kingdom NOW" driven (it's all about US US US US, as in YOU and ME, rather than GOD and Jesus). Visiting any website of a church before attending can give you many clues if you know what to look for.

    There are the "Kingdom Dominionists" who think they actually have to convert the world TO CHRIST BEFORE He will come back (as if WE decide when He comes back. Totally Ridiculous).

    Then there's the "Word of Faith" crowd who teach that you can "create your own destiny" with YOUR WORDS. And they are adept at quoting certain scriptures that can make you think so.

    Some of these combine several of these things together. You just have to ask. A lot of times the names they choose for their churches is a dead giveaway. "Word of Faith" churches usually SAY that in their names.

    Another thing is many churches don't even call themselves Churches anymore. They are now mostly called "CENTERS." (How business-like!)

    The "numbers game" is a big thing these days, too, trying to get more more more people in a "center." In order to do so, they have watered down the reverant environment and catered to everything worldly. "If we can't get the world to come be like us, we will be more like them." And it shows!

    Then there's the "new ager" type Christian churches that are bringing in all sort of new age activities into the churches from "contemplative spirituality," to labyrinths to yoga to "the secret," etc. etc. These are referred to as "Emergent" Churches. This site keeps watch and reports on these: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/index.html

    Oh boy, I'm not even scratching the surface. Do some searches at apologetic sites (some links further below) and get a much better run-down of the apostasies and heresies going on before settling in permanently into any church. No harm in visiting around. And if you're serious, ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to where He wants you. And don't be shy about "interviewing" the pastor FIRST. (Yeah, who woulda thought it would ever come to that, but if you're going to "sit under" a shepherd, best to know where his head is at). Iit's true, there has been an "infiltration" of churches since the 1940s, starting with the Pentecostals. Don't be shy to ask your pastor if he or any of the deacons are Mason, no joke. The Baptist orgs are full of 'em, too.

    Some of the links below are ministries who watch and report in detail about these things. And don't forget the "ecumenical movement." It's not just in the RCC, but there are those who have signed many major documents uniting "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" and all sorts of deceptive-webs they are weaving. The Protestant church as a whole is creeping its way back to Mother Rome, a big push for "UNITY" at the sacrifice of clear Biblical doctrines. Watch out for that, too.

    -------------

    As for all the "experiences" your friends said they had, I would never try to deny another person's experience, though it doesn't happen like that for everyone and many will say so. Actually the WT had it more correct as far as "newbie Christians" (MINUS THEIR ERRONEOUS INTERPRETATION of scripture), but the "taking of a newbie under the wing" of a more mature Christian and "DISCIPLING them" is actually the way it was done in the first century. Discipling takes time, and some people just grow slowly rather than these instant "liquid love" and "I feel goose-bumps all over" type of thing. Don't feel "left out" if you don't have such an experience, and don't let any church group pressure you into feeling like you MUST have one or you're not saved.

    That's another thing. Some churches have all sorts of requirements to be a member. They say you HAVE to speak in tongues first, or you HAVE to have experienced a "filling by the Holy Ghost" first, etc. The ONLY requirement for salvation during this Age of Grace is described in 1 Cor. 15:1-3, that you believe in the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ. No baptism is required, no works are required, no other gimmicks or tricks are required, only that you believe those three things: Death, Burial, Resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Of course believing in the virgin birth, the Word of God, etc. should go along with that).

    ---------

    Oh, and many of these churches are more interested in the "HOLY SPIRIT" than Jesus Christ. Watch out for that. The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit is to GLORIFY JESUS, not the other way around, but for some reason these guys can't see that. All they talk about is the HS, the HS, the HS, the HS, etc. etc. etc. Don't let the make you feel like you have to get all worked up to get some HS! If you want more HS, just ask for it directly.

    ----------

    Try not to get discouraged. It may sound like bad news out there, and it is in many places (just as Paul said it would be in the last days, they have a form of Godly devotion but prove false to its power, etc. -- which is a good sign in a sense as it means the Lord is that much closer to calling the saints home), but the JOY of the LORD is STILL AVAILABLE in the meantime! And solid Biblical teaching is STILL OUT THERE, too. Don't ever give up on the Lord even if all the churches in your entire city are more interested in "leadership training" and "men's Knighthood camps" and "purpose driven gimmicks" and "mentors" and "personal coaches" and heaven knows what else. "Christian Centers" are up to ALL KINDS of things.

    ---------

    For more info, if you're up to some reading, these are some of my favorite links that can steer you clear of the whacked-out stuff that is out there:

    Here is a "normal" Pentecostal church/site/preacher who writes great clear, precise articles: http://www.pawcreek.org/articles.htm

    Here is a "normal" Baptist church/site/preacher/teacher who also writes great clear, precise articles: http://www.wayoflife.org/ -- Check out his Friday News Notes, Apostasy Database, Daily Articles Listings, etc.

    Other great sites which will explain what is whacked out Biblically, and what isn't:
    * http://www.apostasywatch.com/
    * http://www.erwm.com/
    * http://www.seekgod.ca/
    * http://contenderministries.org/
    * http://www.apostasyrevealed.com/article_billyg.htm
    * http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles.html
    * http://www.informedchristians.com/
    * http://www.watchpair.com
    * Purpose Driven a/k/a "Outcome Based Religion": http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1506index.html
    * Word of Faith: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/posit.htm
    * Neo-Evangelicalism: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/neoe.htm
    * "End Time Revival" or Last Days Deception? http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/Revival_is_it_coming.htm

    I'm sure there's more sites, just throw in a phrase in google and search away! Learning all the "lingo" they are using first will help, that way you know what to research ("Latter Rain," "Third Wave," "Manifest Sons of God," "Kingdom Dominion," "Esoteric Church," "Vineyard Movement," "Promise Keepers," "Pensacola/Toronto," etc. etc.). Tuning in to the tube as you said you've done a few times will teach you a lot. Plus I'm sure your friends can help.

    They are not ALL bad. I love Christian TV, but over the years I've learned who is whacked and who isn't.

    -------------------------

    Now how's about some GOOD NEWS:

    HAVE CHURCH AT HOME:

    Got a favorite chair? A favorite Bible? Some nice worship music? You're all set...

    For THE Most UN-whacked out Bible teacher I've found in seven years, and only as far away as the TV: http://www.lesfeldick.org/les-tv.html . Have your own Bible study right there at home. You'll be amazed at what you learn from this humble 'ol guy -- no flash, no sass, no screamin', no glory, no pleas for $$. Just verse by verse teaching, fascinating! All the scales dropped off my eyes from ALL scriptural confusion when I first ran across some of the Myles J. Stanford articles below, and then within a few months I "discovered" Les on TV who teaches along the same lines. What a JACKPOT all within a few months' time...

    MORE Great News: http://withchrist.org/knowhim.htm
    http://withchrist.org/thecross.htm
    The New Birth Explained: http://withchrist.org/MJS/newbirth.htm
    http://withchrist.org/articles.htm
    http://withchrist.org/dispensationalism.htm
    http://withchrist.org/pauldisp.htm
    http://withchrist.org/faqs.htm
    http://withchrist.org/images/IHC.jpg
    http://www.lesfeldick.org/lestimel.html
    http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesqa.html
    http://www.lesfeldick.org/index.html
    Plan for Heaven: http://www.lesfeldick.org/plan4hvn.html

    -----------------

    Want to grab hold of these verses?

    4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. - Galatians 4:4-7

    The above Les/Myles/Dan S. articles links can help to get you there (via education re: what salvation really means).

    HTH!

    Sorry for the length or TMI. Just bite off a little at a time, and chew good and ENJOY! It's really a fascinating journey, because you are FREE to do it at YOUR pace and investigate wherever the Spirit leads YOU. No Borganization required!

    :-D

    /ag

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Its been stated already but; some have a Damascus Road experience to tell, others have nothing extraordinary at all. The point is the focus on Christ, nothing else (especially not sect or creed).

    As for high jinks and gimmicks, I'm really not into them at all. I prefer reverence, but I know that it is just a personal preference, so I judge noone in that.

  • Pahpa
    Pahpa

    God reveals himself in different ways. I always think of Elijah's experience: "Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind, there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper." (1 Kings 19:11-13) For many of us it is that "gentle whisper" that has drawn us close to God. But what ever the experience, it is the personal relationship between God and you that really counts not the association with a particular church.

  • alotlikemay
    alotlikemay

    Junction-Guy, I'm with you when you say you don't care what religions do but when it comes to affecting people's lives.... that's a different ball-game. I was saying that only the other day to someone. What people do to each other in the name of religion makes me furious

    I'm a Christian but there was no great revelation or awesome experience like that one mentioned or like I also hear people talk about or see on TV

    for me, it's a quiet conviction - I feel no need to leap around or try to force others feel the same way... if they do, they do, if they don't, they don't... my faith is private and personal to me - I've had it since I was a child and it's matured now, after my many adventures, and I'm glad for it

    point for me is, it's not so long since I wanted to die (aftermath of leaving the organisation really) and I've got my life back and I just want to enjoy being alive ... and I don't judge other people by whether they're a Christian or not - Christians are a motley crew and non-Christians are too, so my benchmark for a "nice" person is whether they're kind and sincere and that can often transcend religious faith.

    sorry, no desire to jump over chairs or yell like a banshee

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    It's when the weird becomes destructive to the personal well being, and leaves the person suicidal, drug addicts,
    alcoholics, or in therapy for many years, that I have a problem with.

    Nice post, JC.

    I agree- Wierd is okay, destructive is not.

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