Origins of the stake instead of the Cross

by wab07 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  hubert

  Dave and wab, I found the other link I was looking for.

  It's a post by "Tuesday", called "Interesting day at work".

  I don't think she would mind if I link it here. It's awesome !!!!

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/118872/1.ashx

  Enjoy....

  Hubert
• 

  Gill

  The WTBTS just wants to be 'different' from everyother religion/cult. Whether something is true or accurate doesn't come into the equation. So to have Christ dying on a stake suits the WTBTS. Whether he did or didn't is neither here nor there to them....as long as they are 'different'.
• 

  dust

  The cross is a pagan symbol, so the Romans would NEVER have used a cross, you know... BTW, did you ever notice that the stake resembles a phallic symbol as used in pagan religions?
• 

  Junction-Guy

  That old phallic symbol argument just doesnt hold water, as the stake is definitely more phallic than a cross.
• 

  jwfacts

  Hubert that is a great find. I have posted the relevant part below

  "Reasoning from the Scriptures" on pg. 89 where The Imperial Bible-Dictionary is referred to:

  "The Greek word for cross, [stauros], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground…. Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole."

  But what does the "The Imperial Bible Dictionary" say in-between the WT's ellipses or the "…."?

  It seems that within the ellipses or "….", the WT has indeed neglected to include some crucial information about the "stake" or "upright pole"; that is, and I quote: "a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves

  “ Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a transverse piece of wood was commonly added."

  "…and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood."

  "But the commonest form, it is understood, was that in which the upright piece of wood was crossed by another near the top, but not pricisely at it, the upright pole running above the other, thus "a cross" and so making four, not merely two right angles. It was on a cross of this form, according to the general voice of tradition, that our Lord suffered."

  There seems to be no end to these ....'s in Watchtower publications, and their inclusion to completely change the meaning of what the quoted writer portrayed. I would love to get a full list of them sometime.
• 

  wab07

  Thanks for all the comment and links....very helpful.
• 

  *jeremiah*

  Whatup little bro?

  So you've been talking to mom about the cross huh?

  Everyone left excellent comments,...let me know how it goes.

  Have you shown her the scripture jwfacts brought up?

  John 20:25; "unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nail s and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe".

  Jesus had nails in this hands. Yet Watchtower pictures always have a nail in this wrists. When I showed that to my 14yo daughter she couldn't believe that JWs don't notice it.

  ....and I like dust's reasoning....the Roman Empire was pagan and they were in charge of the execution. What was stopping pagan Rome from using a pagan execution device?
• 

  hubert

  This cross/stake issue should not be such a big deal. It's only another example of
  free publicity for WTS by being different.

  I agree with this statement, On the way out, it isn't a "big deal". It is about being different.

  However with that said, the "big deal" is the Watchtower deliberately misquotes the truth, and this is proof that they lie to their converts.

  I think with this kind of ammo, how can a j.w. refute it?

  Hubert
• 

  greendawn

  I don't know why the dubs are making such a fuss about this issue, why is it so important whether Jesus died on a pole or on a cross as we know it? If they trying to say that the cross is a purely pagan symbol and has nothing to do with the crucifixion it is irrelevant since Christians see it as a symbol of salvation and not a pagan symbol and that's what really matters.
• 

  dust

  Junction-Guy: Exactly my point. :)