Jesus never used the name Jehovah??? (page 4)

researcher

There is the scripture thats says of Jesus in a prayer saying "I have made your name known to them"...... John 17:26 So it is logical that Jesus did use the name 'Jehovah' in his ministry and to his disciples. Hope this helps........... :)

jgnat

With all due respect, The Old Hippie, my German relatives CANNOT get their tongues around "jgnat". It comes out "Yannet" or "Channet". I've been told that the hard "J" just doesn't exist in many languages.

metatron

Sorry, but when Jesus said he made His name "known" to the disciples it did not mean that he told them the name "Jehovah'.

Why not? Because the idea is silly! If your name is Elijah or Jehoshaphat or Mattaniyah , it's a pretty good bet that you know that

your name is derived from Jehovah/Yahweh! When Jesus made the name "manifest" or "known", it meant that he was demonstrating

who God was and what God could do.

If you doubt this, just read the Watchtower's own Insight on the Scriptures book vol. 2 page 12 in which it quotes from a Hebrew scholar

who points to this metaphorical usage, "we see at once that to know Jehovah's name is something very different from knowing the four letters

of which it is composed.". Imagine that! Right from the Watchtower's own mouth!

metatron

sspo

If using God's name was so important as The JW's do, why is it that the apostle Paul never used it in 14 letters that he wrote, always referring to him as God-Father and Lord.

The last book written "A revelation from God " to the apostle John and once again, his name never used except

the abbreviated form " Jah "

If the Creator powerful as He is wanted to keep his name going in the new testament he would have done it so.

Mad

Due to the Jews believing the name too holy to be pronounced (especially since they knew they'd be using it in VAIN), and also the the False Prophets that started swaying the early Christians- and the fact that the original writings are long gone (only copies from later centuries- a few fragments believed to be close to the first century), we can't state a a FACT Jesus did or didn't.

However, knowing Christ, and the rest of the scriptures answers it for me- of course! No if Jesus were God, as the Catholic Dogma reigns in the minds of most church-goers, than maybe he didn't....However, Jesus HAS and SERVES a God- His "God & Father"!

Agape,

Mad

You're full of - you know what DogPatch! Instead of cut & pasting the drivel of religiously funded "scholsrs", why not just briefly state what you THINK are the facts here?

Mad

Amazing

Pahpa: No where in any New Testament manuscript is the Hebrew name Yahweh (Jehovah, English) used. There are, however, some variations in some places, such as when Revelation uses Alelluia (meaning praise Yah). However, Jesus name (Yeshua) means "Yahweh is Salvation." The notion that when he quoted Hebrew scripture that contained the name Yahweh that he must has used the name is one possible support. Another possible support is found in John Chapter 17, where Jesus, in prayer, pointedly stated that he made his Father's name known to his disciples. We need to also consider that the New Testament shows that all name recognition has been transferred to the Son. Plus we have 2,000-years of Christian tradition focusing on Jesus name, and not Yahweh or Jehovah. Therefore, a better meaning of Jesus comments in John 17 may suggest the "name" he made known was in regards to God's reputation, or good name as we might call it, and not some formal pronounciation of a label we would call Yahweh or Jehovah.

Mad: You stated the following:

Due to the Jews believing the name too holy to be pronounced (especially since they knew they'd be using it in VAIN), ...

Jesus would not have submitted to such a tradition were it all that important to pronounce the Divine Name. But this superstition of the Jews that you reference is really irrelevant to the issue.

"... and also the the False Prophets that started swaying the early Christians ..."

Irrelevant. While there were some false prophets and heretics around, the Church Fathers were quite effective at combatting them. Also, Jesus promised that he would be with the Church all days up to the end of the world, and likewise he promised that the Holy Spirit would be there to teach and guide the Church. So to assume that somehow false prophets and Jewish superstition held sway over the Church is in effect calling Jesus Christ a liar.

" ... - and the fact that the original writings are long gone (only copies from later centuries- a few fragments believed to be close to the first century), we can't state a a FACT Jesus did or didn't."

This is also not a logical conclusion. The fragments, of which there are many thousands, some of which date back to the 2nd century, there is only minor variations in the copying. It makes no sense that somehow by the end of the first century all copyists around the then known world, from Jerusalem, to Alexandria, Egypt, to Spain, and Rome would have simultaneously conspired to eliminate the name Yahweh or Jehovah from the New Testament. If it were ever used it would have appeared in some of the texts. Jesus may well have used the name Yahweh, but it was not made important to the Christians, because the name Jesus was given above every name to humans as the name by which we must get saved.

However, knowing Christ, and the rest of the scriptures answers it for me- of course! No if Jesus were God, as the Catholic Dogma reigns in the minds of most church-goers, than maybe he didn't....However, Jesus HAS and SERVES a God- His "God & Father"!

Again, this vague reference to the Trinity doctrine is irrelevant to whether Jesus used the name Yahweh. While Jesus was a human he functioned in every respect as a human and his human nature was subordinated to the Father. He was not exerting his own Godship at that time. Paul said in Phillipians that Jesus took on a slave's form when he became human. So it would make sense that he would refer to the Father as his God. But this discussion needs a separate thread to properly develop.

Finally, you tell Dogpatch (Randy) that he should just summarize the informaton rather than quoting various scholars extensively. Randy made the quotes out of intellectual honesty so that we can see exactly what experts have said. This is academically the correct thing to do. Perhaps he oculd have opened with an abstract or executive summary, but in this type of very short post, what he did was just fine.

Jim Whitney

TheOldHippie

Well, jgnat, I have a BA in German from one of the universities of my own country, I lived three years in Germany after that, and I spent one year at a German university. I don't say that to boast or impress - just to state that I do know my German, and to repeat what I said earlier - they DO have the J. Of course they have problems in pronouncing combinations used in other languages, for example they never managed my name although they have each and every one of the sounds of it - it was the combination they didn't get. But the J in and the combination of God's NAME - no problem for a German. The only difference is that the "v" at the end is pronounced "f".

Take care, TOH

justhuman

Actually from the old Greek manuscrips that supposed they change the name Yahwe(the correct pronouncation for Jehovah)with Lord, we find no evidence of the Watchtower's accusation regarding changing Gods name.

But since the leadership of the WT are a banch of unaducated old people, have NO idea of Greek language, The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit share the same name. And there are many biblical verses that indicates this clearly to us. And the common name for them is Yahwe. Jesus said this when he asked his disciples to baptize in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The 3 Persons of the Trinity share the same name. It is very simple.

But of course the main problem was Rutherfords attitude towards the Bible Students, the real followers of Russell, and he wanted to take the credit for him self, so he came up (after drinking a couple of bottles of Scotch)of changing the name to Jehovahs Witnesses. So actually they became Josephs Witnesses.

But he forget also that Jesus said that you are my Witnesses, and you will suffer for my name, and what ever you ask in behalf of my name I will give it to you. Also Jesus said that I'm the way and life. In Antioch the Jesus followers the use the name Christians in order to identify themselfs as followers of Jesus. So God asked for us to use the name of Jesus, so it should be Jesus Witnesses.

But Jesus also he called him, Father. And the is the correct way for a Son to call his Dad. You don't call your father by his name. And this is another problem that WT has. The Israelites they had Master - Slave, relation with God and that is why they are refering God with His name. But Christians do not have this relation with God. Christians they use the word Father for God, because they are now children of God through Jesus sacrifice.

So this makes JW's slaves and it is correct for them to use the name of Yahwe when they are calling God...

Mrs Smith

Thank you for the input everyone! The information is excellent! Suppose that once again, the Borg has 'gone beyond what is written' with this....They seem to shoot themselves in the foot all the time!

Jesus never used the name Jehovah???

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