How does the Ransom Sacrifice work? A Primer

Terry

In Judaism, only the offended party can forgive you your sin. You must make amends or pay a fine. That is why murder cannot be forgiven; the deceased is not around to accept your apology or restitution!

Who is the offended party to Adam's sin? Was Adam's death payment for the sin of disobedience? If Jesus has to take the place of Adam (while alive) and pay restitution for the sin of disobedience; to whom is the price paid but to the offended party (God)

Now, if Jesus IS god you have a real circus volkswagon full of clowns!

Jesus is the offended party, takes the place of the offender and then dies in order to make amends for the offence he committed against himself!!! (Which is to say: symbolically!)

Even if Jesus is not god you have the innocent party (Jesus) being punished for the guilty party (Adam) as well as making just one death (Jesus') expand quantitatively to cover the deaths of billions of humans (Adam's offspring).

The payment of the innocent person's death is paid to the innocent person's own Dad who allows this transaction to occur and calls it JUSTICE!!

Justice is getting what you deserve; good or bad! But, poor Jesus didn't offend God (his dad/himself) did he?How is this JUSTice?

Did Rube Goldberg design this scenario or was it some out of work Hollywood hack?

Was the death Adam was warned would occur a literal fleshly demise? Or, was it a metaphorical "spiritualized" death? If it was a "spiritualized" death, then, why did a literal fleshly demise occur too?

If Jesus died for Adam and all his offspring and it was their "spiritual" death he is redeeming, then; why did Jesus need to die a fleshly death?

The offended party is God, right? In what way was God, jehovah or jesus god offended to the extent 6000+ years of human suffering and death were not enough to quell the sense of damage??

Why is Jesus' death as a demi-god, god, son of god (take your pick) so similar to the pagan idea of the death and resurrection of their make believe deities? How did the unbelieving pagans correctly guess the sacred secret????

This is a pretzel copulating with a pig's tail while climbing a spiral staircase!!

truthsetsonefree

You are soooo right Terry. That ransom thing is such a hack job. People in my Hall gave me kudos for "explaining" it well when I gave the Memorial talk. And I swear I still did a lousy job. It is so ridiculous and illogical. In fact many JWs simply chalk it up to being one of the "deep things of God," which is not unlike teachings of the churches which JWs condemn.

tsof

researcher

Jesus didnt die for Adam. The way the ransom works, as explained way back in the old book "Aid to Bible Understanding", known better as the Aid book, is that Jesus had the potential to marry and father a perfect human race that would of eventually been equal in number to the imperfect human race that Adam fathered. So when Jesus died, a potential perfect human race died in his loins with him. It is that perfect potential human race that died when jesus died that was the ransom. Jesus did not die for adam, his potential perfect human race died for Adams imperfect human race. Regardless of what you think of the Watchtower, the explaination of the ransom this way is the only one that ever made sense to me anyway. Hope this helps.

Anti-Christ

is that Jesus had the potential to marry and father a perfect human race that would of eventually been equal in number to the imperfect human race that Adam fathered. So when Jesus died, a potential perfect human race died in his loins with him.

For that to be true, should there be a perfect woman also?

betterdaze

There's a rather detailed explanation here... and no, it's not about ransoming or even perfection (nowhere do the scriptures say man was created perfect).

http://www.usbible.com/Sacrifice/Sacrifice_and_Jesus.htm

Sacrifice and Jesus
USBIBLE.COM
Full Text
Cannibalism
Human Sacrifice
Christian Paganism
Biblical inanities
Corruption of Justice
Logical Absurdities

"Without doubt, the most celebrated human sacrifice of all is that of Jesus Christ; the Christian religion is founded upon it. The typical Christian finds nothing wrong this. Moreover, he is probably grateful because someone innocent atoned for his guilt. We will examine this subject in depth to show that it is arguably one of the greatest perversions of logic and justice ever perpetuated on mankind."

truthsetsonefree

Regardless of what you think of the Watchtower, the explaination of the ransom this way is the only one that ever made sense to me anyway.

This made sense to me as well, but they stop using it much and focused on that justice stuff. Even so, no where does the Bible speak about this potential human race. Like everything else WT it is a human attempt at explaining things.

tsof

Terry

It is that perfect potential human race that died when jesus died that was the ransom. Jesus did not die for adam, his potential perfect human race died for Adams imperfect human race. Regardless of what you think of the Watchtower, the explaination of the ransom this way is the only one that ever made sense to me anyway. Hope this helps.

Ladies and gentlemen................I direct your attention to the center ring.

You are about to see something that will dazzle and amaze you.

POTENTIAL, PERFECT HUMAN RACE

I suppose I should point out that there is a huge difference and distinction between a POTENTIAL anything and an ACTUAL something.

Think about that for a moment.

We aren't talking about a fertilized egg. We are talking about a hypothetical possibility of a fertilized egg!! This is a "potential" person.

Add to this "potential" (i.e.NON-EXISTING person) the conceptual label of "perfect".)

Once you are able to wrap your mind around this wisp of airy nothingness raised to perfection you are asked to comprehend the actual death of an actual person FOR an airy nothing.

This would only mind-boggle a sane person, I'll grant you.

However, I am now told that:

Regardless of what you think of the Watchtower, the explaination of the ransom this way is the only one that ever madesense to me anyway. Hope this helps.

Wow!!

I mean, come on people!!

If this even begins to seem reasonable to you I have to feel sad.

Terry

Regardless of what you think of the Watchtower, the explaination of the ransom this way is the only one that ever made sense to me anyway.
This made sense to me as well, but they stop using it much and focused on that justice stuff. Even so, no where does the Bible speak about this potential human race. Like everything else WT it is a human attempt at explaining things.

In my actual checking account I have deposited a potential million dollars. If I actually write a check for $500,000 of it and mail it to you---potentially you will be a half-millionaire.

Actually, my potential half-million dollar check will bounce.

Ask yourself why my check will bounce.

trevor

The ransom sacrifice works very well.

A man is born and feels no guilt, no shame. As the years pass, his Christian family teach him to be ashamed because he is sinful and imperfect. The only way he can escape this sad condition is to accept the idea of a ransom sacrifice made on his behalf. He will then be shown mercy and be free of sin.

Alas he is then indebted to the Christian church that helped him strike this priceless bargain and of course to the invisible Christ for whom they claim to act.

Still better than staying a child of the Devil and living in sin with nothing to look forward to except death and maybe an eternity in Hell depending on how trendy your branch of Christianity is.

t

Terry

The ransom sacrifice works very well.
A man is born and feels no guilt, no shame. As the years pass, his Christian family teach him to be ashamed because he is sinful and imperfect. The only way he can escape this sad condition is to accept the idea of a ransom sacrifice made on his behalf. He will then be shown mercy and be free of sin.
Alas he is then indebted to the Christian church that helped him strike this priceless bargain and of course to the invisible Christ for whom they claim to act.
Still better than staying a child of the Devil and living in sin with nothing to look forward to except death and maybe an eternity in Hell depending on how trendy your branch of Christianity is.

It just struck me reading the above that this is exactly the same scam Fortune Tellers use on the unwary.

A person approaches the Fortune Teller with a personal problem.

The Fortune Teller peers into the crystal and pronunces the reason for the problem. It is a CURSE!

The CURSE can only be lifted by a silly ritual and the payment of money. (Often the money is to be buried in a designated spot to be dug up later by the Fortune Teller.)

Not only do people simply accept the "curse" as being real and deserved, but, they willingly remove money from the bank, perform the ritual and bury the money.

The Go-between gets the monetary benefit and the victim gets "relief" as imaginary as the curse itself!

How does the Ransom Sacrifice work? A Primer

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