Percentage of JW's that are undercover?

by flipper 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • Quandary
    Quandary

    I concur with DoubtingBro. I think those percentages are pretty accurate.

    I recently had a conversation with my mom (a die hard JW, pioneer for the past 30 yrs, had about 30 of her students baptized) about the May 1st QFR and was surprised by her response. She said the newer members of the GB are too young to truly be "annointed" and she feels it's their influence which caused the writing of the article. She then through me for a loop stating that it's a shame that articles such as these give fodder to the opposers of "Jehovah's Organization" and she doesn't appreciate them. So there you go, a die hard JW doesn't believe the newer GB members are truly "annointed" but STILL believes this is "Jah's Org." I guess she falls in that 40% group.

    Q

  • dozy
    dozy

    Excellent analysis by doubtingbro. I also think that there are very few genuine "undercover" JWs - it would be very hard to sustain such a position for a long time. My thoughts on a typical cong breakdown , developed from db:

    5% Typically brother aged 50 , former elder. Mentally completely out , almost closet apostate. Has read Franz’s books , perused apostate sites over the years. Usually married to devout JW or strong JW business ties , otherwise you’d never see him. Miss a lot of meetings , rarely answer up.

    30% Typically young & dumb 20 - 30 year old couples. Brought up as Jws , married young , menial job , nominal ministry , miss a fair number of meetings. Limited bible & doctrinal knowledge. Social animals - likely to bunk off on a Saturday afternoon at the convention to go shopping.

    25% 30 - 60 year olds. Clever , competent couples and families , often well off financially with nice homes & successful careers. Holiday in Florida or Caribbean twice a year. Have evolved their own take on the truth , which is woven into their lives without really taxing them. Feel confident enough to be quite outspoken about doctrines they don’t really believe in.

    20% True believers. Often genuine pioneers - part time job to “keep life simple“. Eulogise the FADS as often as possible at the meetings. Call the GB “Christ’s brothers” and come home from assemblies talking about the “wonderful spiritual food at the right time.” Absolutely devout - no doubts whatsoever. Often inclined to be self righteous when they don’t see others doing what they are doing.

    20% General category including social misfits and elderly ones. Generally believe quite strongly , mainly because the truth gives a meaning to their lives which nothing else does.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    If there are that many undercover JWs then the society's ability to control its members and prevent them from fleeing are proving very successful. The fear of losing family as an immediate menace, and armageddon in the longer term. There is one for the present and one for the future.

  • Gordy
    Gordy

    I know a few JW's who are "undercover" from young ones to even Elders.

    Why don't they leave, is often asked. Because many of them have their whole families who are JW's and rather than hurt and lose them they stay on.

    I knew two Elders, both in their 70's, who doubted much of the WT teachings, one even showed me from Bible that Jesus was God. But as one said if he were to leave it would kill his wife, to her going to the KH was everything.

    But as has been said above I think the ones under 30 are more likely in the end to decide that they have had enough and leave.

    I know talking to mt teenage children that those JW's they know of their age, are just waiting for the chance to leave. Just keeping the parents happy by being baptised etc

  • blondie
    blondie

    A book you might find interesting is:

    MISTAKES WERE MADE (but not by ME)--Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts.

    Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson

  • Amber Rose
    Amber Rose

    Ok, I'll pull a statistic out of my @ss too.

    75% of JWs under 40 have no clue what they believe, all they know is the JW lifestyle and Rev. 21:3&4.

  • undercover
    undercover

    There's only one 'undercover'...

    ...me!

    But I'm not an undercover JW anymore. I chose the name because when I joined the forum I was still partly active in the religion, but with serious doubts and issues. I felt like a spy, trying to find the dirt on the religion as I searched on my own outside of the official publications.

    But in some other ways I still am undercover, because even though I am out and have been for awhile, I still have lots of family and extended family still in and I have to endure their incessent blabberings about the "truth". Instead of arguing and debating, I just keep quiet and allow them their fantasies. So, I'm an undercover apostate, I guess.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Apart from teenagers very few I reckon are 'undercover'. But I have to some extent given up second-guessing other people and what they really think at the meetings.

    I for one know how hard it is to keep up regular meeting attendance without believing it. So that makes me a bit sceptical of the idea that there is a large percentage at the meetings who don't believe. There are degrees of belief though, and there may be some who accept it 'on their own terms' as has been suggested. But even such ones probably believe it is fundamentally "the truth" on some level, even though they have criticisms.

    When I first went to assemblies I thought everyone was happy and believed it the same as I did. When I had doubts I thought everyone looked miserable at assemblies and thought the same way I did as well. So now I must admit I simply don't know what on earth other people are thinking. There is too great a tendency to simply see your own reflection, if you see what I mean.

    I knew Little Toe for years before he left, and he was the last person I would have predicted to become apostate.

    On the other hand there is a Witness nearby I know who I always thought was a bit sceptical, but through recent conversations I have discovered he is a dyed-in-the-wool believer.

    I think if we accept that behaviour is a good predictor of inner feelings, then I don't think disbelief can be more widespread among Witnesses than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Consider that in 1986 there were 391,294 pioneers. In 2006 there were 911,739. That is quite an increase in percentage as well as in absolute terms. Although the hours required to pioneer has dropped, I think becoming a pioneer still requires a basic level of commitment to the 'cause' that is unlikely to be undertaken by someone with serious doubts. And if someone has doubts while pioneering, I don't think they remain pioneers for long. While you could argue there is some benefit in an undercover disbeliever keeping up meeting attendance, I can see no sense in someone who does not believe in it continuing to pioneer.

    So for that reason I think the fact that pioneer numbers continue to increase indicates that there is not widespread disbelief among Witnesses, or that such undercover Witnesses have increased dramatically in recent years.

    Slim

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Quandary said

    So there you go, a die hard JW doesn't believe the newer GB members are truly "annointed" but STILL believes this is "Jah's Org."

    I would point out that the old GB picks the members that will join them. The old GB says they are
    guided by CT Russell; JF Rutherford; angels; Christ; the anointed in Heaven; Jehovah's spirit.
    Didn't their guide tell them that these newer ones were not truly anointed? And how will Jehovah's
    spirit guide the new GB full of mistaken other sheep?

    I like DB's figures also.

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