re his post:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132845/1.ashx
I was trying to find the bible verse that said "help my unbelief" and with my concordance found the following verse: Romans 11:25:32
Before I quote the scripture I want to relate an experience I had about five years ago. For about 13 years I went to a Christian Reformed Church. I enjoyed it there, made many friends and learned a lot and for that I will always be very grateful.
While going through some marital difficulties I went to a Christian counselor. Because I was so curious about the bible she recommended I go to her church (Reformed Church in America) for Bible101. For some reason red flags went up the first night but I shook it off because I tend to be a sceptic. About the fourth week the pastor mentioned something about election that perked my interest, so I asked him about it after class. He said that he would discuss it in a few weeks but I told him that I didn’t want to wait; I wanted the answer. He told me and I was totally blown away. In the 13 years that I was at this church no one had ever told me.
TULIP is the Calvinistic means of categorizing the broad doctrine of human salvation and stands for: 1) Total Depravity; 2) Unconditional Election; 3) Limited Atonement; 4) Irresistible Grace; and 5) the Perseverance
of the Saints.I cried all the way home. I must have cried for about 3 days. I truly thought that I was damned; that my whole family was damned. Why did this have such an effect on me? I had never known of this doctrine before. During that time I was going through a lot of stuff, my marriage, prior to that, my wavering faith in Jesus (not sure if he even existed-to the point that I couldn’t go to church-thought it hypocritical) So I felt, because I didn’t feel the presence of Jesus then it follows that I wasn’t of the elect.
About the 3 rd day I did hear God’s voice (in my thoughts-in case you think I was hearing voices) saying that He never left me; that He was still there.
I left that church; never saw the friends again. I take some of the blame but I was so hurt; I just wanted a clean break. Two ladies did know what I was going through regarding election but they never did call me. The pastor of the other church did call me the following day to make sure I was okay.
In my own mind I tried to think how election could be possible. I couldn’t think of anything. If election was true, how could God be loving, fair, just. He chooses some, and sorry I didn’t choose you; not because you sinned more; but just because. Why were we told to evangelize if He had already chosen? Nothing made sense so I finally had to come to the conclusion that it just couldn’t be true and left it at that.
Today I read Romans 11:25:32 (since this incident I’ve had problems reading Romans-avoiding it)
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins".
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too many now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Unless I’m totally off I feel this scripture helps me to believe that the election of the Reformed church is different from the election of the bible.
My understanding from this passage (very simplistically) is that God chose the Israelites.
Deut 14:2 ...for you are a people holy to the Lord your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be His treasured possession."
He made an everlasting Covenant (Davidic) with them.
2 Sam 7:13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever."
The Jews rejected Jesus, the Gentiles accepted Jesus but eventually the Jews will also come to a belief in Jesus. (Could the 144,000 be a group of chosen Jews that will evangelize to their own?)
As Gentiles we were at one time separated from the covenants God made with Israel, having no hope, disconnected from God and His family but through the blood of Jesus we are included. Without him we’re like orphans, on the outside looking in. The Gentiles have now been adopted into the family of God - grafted into the root of Israel. (The grafting is mentioned in beginning of Romans 11)
God wants all people to come to Him. He has chosen some for a purpose, but not chosen some for eternal life with Him and others for eternal damnation or annihilation. That's what I believe.
Oh, by the way, three years ago I did go back to church. Followed my daughter to a Pentecostal church (Assemblies of Canada). Very different from the traditional Christian Reformed. I did have concerns but I don't think any church has it perfect. I'm questioning the whole "tongues" thing but it's not reason (for me) to leave at this point. My church is very normal. I love the worship. The pastors are very transparent, not on some pedestal.