Reasons its a cult... (page 2)

jgnat

Dear rescuer, she is NOT undergoing all of this. The Watchtower society uses some, not all coercive techniques. I remember the day I came to the realization how DEEP my husband was involved in all this, the terrible reality of their hold on him, and the great effort that would be required to wake him up. I, also, searched out my husband in tears. I begged him not to get involved. His demeanor changed in a second, becoming almost robot-like. He refused me. It took many months to undo that early mistake I made.

NEVER LET ON TO YOUR LOVED-ONE how terrified you are. The Watchtower society has primed them to expect this response, and to identify it as from Satan. Can you imagine how YOU would feel if you thought your loved-one was being controlled by the evil one? At all costs, you do not want her to identify you as the enemy.

The best illustration I can think of on how to approach a loved one, is to imagine them as wandering along the edge of a cliff. Would you shout out a warning, lunge to grab her?

Any sudden action might stumble her right off the edge!

Rather, you would approach quietly, calmly and reasonably, coaxing her closer to you. That is how to remove her from danger. Keep this in mind always.

jgnat

I've gone through the list and highlighted where I think the WTS fits.

Replace Guru with Governing Body, and you about have it.

1. The Guru is always right.

2. You are always wrong.

3. No Exit.

4. No Graduates.

5. Cult-speak.

6. Group-think.

7. Irrationality.

8. Suspension of disbelief.

9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions.

10. Personal attacks on critics.

11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY.

12. The cult and its members are special.

13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.

14. Dogma, Unquestionable Dogma, and Sacred Science.

15. Indoctrination of members.

16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities.

17. Instant Community.

18. Instant Intimacy.

19. Surrender To The Cult.

20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.

21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts. – partial. Testimonies are highly controlled and scripted at assemblies and the magazines.

22. The cult is self-absorbed.

23. Dual Purposes.

24. Aggressive Recruiting.

25. Deceptive Recruiting.

26. No Humor.

27. You can't tell the truth.

28. Cloning -- You must redefine yourself and your life in cult terms.

29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.

30. The End Justifies The Means.

31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.

32. Different Levels of Truth.

33. Newcomers can't think right.

34. The Cult Implants Phobias.

35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.

36. Confession Sessions.

37. A System of Punishments and Rewards.

38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.

39. Mentoring.

40. Intrusiveness.

41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader. – not so much. The governing body is getting decrepit, however.

42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers.

43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.

44. Dispensed existence

45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic

46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them

– this is quite overt. I’ve seen several new converts who at first are not "spoken to" about their dress. In the beginning they are showered with attention and praise for participating in the meeting. Within a few weeks, though, the young fella is encouraged to wear a tie. Then a jacket. Before they know it, they are discreetly entered in to a world of endless do’s and don’ts..

47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.

48. Mystical Manipulation

49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total commitment.

50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust

51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.

52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages

53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes

54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists

55. Belief equals truth

56. Use of double-binds

57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions.

58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around.

59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.

60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality

61. The Guru Is Extra-Special.

62. Flexible, shifting morality

63. Separatism

64. Inability to tolerate criticism

65. A Charismatic Leader

66. Calls to Obliterate Self

67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.

68. Don't Feel Your Feelings.

69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process.

70. You Owe The Group.

71. We Have The Panacea.

72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments

73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings

74. Trance-Inducing Practices

75. New Identity -- Redefinition of Self -- Revision of Personal History

76. Membership Rivalry

77. True Believers

78. Scapegoating and Excommunication

79. Promised Powers or Knowledge

80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies. – paradise earth!

81. Hypocrisy

82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial.

83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses

84. You can't make it without the cult.

85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider

86. The cult wants to own you.

87. Channeling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information.

88. They Make You Dependent On The Group.

89. Demands For Compliance With The Group

90. Newcomers Need Fixing.

91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.

92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.

93. Black And White Thinking

94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques. The WTS rather uses a slow conversion technique, at least six months. I believe this slower technique means it is nearly impossible to get a convert to "snap out of it". It also takes much longer to convince the convert that they’ve been misused. Think of a frog slowly boiling in a pot of water.

95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult. – only spiritual death.

96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult. . – only spiritual death.

97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth.

98. Making cult members work long hours for free.

99. Total immersion and total isolation.

100. Mass suicide.

undercover

The B.I.T.E. model is also good:

I.	Behavior Control
II.	Information Control
III.	Thought Control
IV.	Emotional Control

I. Behavior Control

1. Regulation of individual’s physical reality

a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations

2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors

5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).

5. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

6. Rigid rules and regulations

7. Need for obedience and dependency

II. Information Control

1. Use of deception

a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don’t have time to think

3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

4. Spying on other members is encouraged

a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

6. Unethical use of confession

a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution

III. Thought Control

1. Need to internalize the group’s doctrine as "Truth"

a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)

2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.

a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in "tongues"
f. Singing or humming

5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful

IV. Emotional Control

1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person’s feelings.

2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader’s or the group’s.

3. Excessive use of guilt

a. Identity guilt

1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions

b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt

4. Excessive use of fear

a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one’s "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval

5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader’s authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.

a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group’s perspective, people who leave are: "weak"; "undisciplined"; "unspiritual"; "worldly"; "brainwashed by family, counselors"; seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.

nvrgnbk

Well done jgnat!

Replacing the word guru with Governing Body is handy for illustrative purposes.

I'd only like to add a few points of my own to your fine observations(I hope that's ok):

1. The Guru is always right.

2. You are always wrong.

3. No Exit.

4. No Graduates.They take great pride in this.

5. Cult-speak.

6. Group-think.

7. Irrationality.Ever read their attempts at applying fulfillment of Bible prophecy to themselves?

8. Suspension of disbelief.

9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions.

10. Personal attacks on critics.

11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY.

12. The cult and its members are special. (God's chosen people?)

13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.

14. Dogma, Unquestionable Dogma, and Sacred Science.

15. Indoctrination of members.

16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities.Can you say Faithful and Discreet Slave?

17. Instant Community. Marvelous worldwide brotherhood dwelling together in harmonious unity.

18. Instant Intimacy. "I feel like I've known these brothers all my life and we just met today."

19. Surrender To The Cult.

20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.

21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts. – partial. Testimonies are highly controlled and scripted at assemblies and the magazines.

22. The cult is self-absorbed.

23. Dual Purposes.

24. Aggressive Recruiting. Tackling people in shopping center parking lots applies.

25. Deceptive Recruiting.

26. No Humor. Individuals, yes, the borg itself, no.The borg needs an enema-badly.

27. You can't tell the truth. Child custody coaching.

28. Cloning -- You must redefine yourself and your life in cult terms. You must sublimate your individuality to be fullyembraced by the borg.

29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.

30. The End Justifies The Means. Theocratic warfare.

31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.

32. Different Levels of Truth.

33. Newcomers can't think right.

34. The Cult Implants Phobias.

35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing. Believe me, they are, I've seen it with my own eyes and been shocked.

36. Confession Sessions. Can you say judicial committee?

37. A System of Punishments and Rewards.

38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection. Can you say Jesus Christ?

39. Mentoring.

40. Intrusiveness. Let's tell married people what kind of sex they can have!

41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader. – not so much. The governing body is getting decrepit, however.

42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers. High incidence of mental ilness in the borg. Most often passesunrecognized.

43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.

44. Dispensed existence

45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic

46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them

– this is quite overt. I’ve seen several new converts who at first are not "spoken to" about their dress. In the beginning they are showered with attention and praise for participating in the meeting. Within a few weeks, though, the young fella is encouraged to wear a tie. Then a jacket. Before they know it, they are discreetly entered in to a world of endless do’s and don’ts..

47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.

48. Mystical Manipulation

49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total commitment.

50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust

51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.

52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages

53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes

54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists

55. Belief equals truth

56. Use of double-binds

57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions.

58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around.

59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.

60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality

61. The Guru Is Extra-Special.

62. Flexible, shifting morality

63. Separatism

64. Inability to tolerate criticism

65. A Charismatic Leader

66. Calls to Obliterate Self

67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.

68. Don't Feel Your Feelings.

69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process.

70. You Owe The Group.

71. We Have The Panacea.

72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments

73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings

74. Trance-Inducing Practices

75. New Identity -- Redefinition of Self -- Revision of Personal History

76. Membership Rivalry

77. True Believers

78. Scapegoating and Excommunication

79. Promised Powers or Knowledge

80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies. – paradise earth!

81. Hypocrisy

82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial.

83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses

84. You can't make it without the cult.

85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider

86. The cult wants to own you.

87. Channeling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information. Claims of direction coming from the holy spirit and the 24 elders stationed around the throne?

88. They Make You Dependent On The Group.

89. Demands For Compliance With The Group

90. Newcomers Need Fixing.

91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.

92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims. See #87.

93. Black And White Thinking

94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques. The WTS rather uses a slow conversion technique, at least six months. I believe this slower technique means it is nearly impossible to get a convert to "snap out of it". It also takes much longer to convince the convert that they’ve been misused. Think of a frog slowly boiling in a pot of water.

95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult . – only spiritual death. Apostates will not be killed at Armageddon?

96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult. . – only spiritual death. Apostates will not be killed at Armageddon?

97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth.

98. Making cult members work long hours for free.

99. Total immersion and total isolation. If one takes the indoctrination to heart, this is the psychological effect.

100. Mass suicide.

rebel8

www.jwinfo.8m.com ---> see cult comparison page

Also check "best of" folder here on jwd.

LongHairGal

This is all so sad but true. Even if the JWs are not a cult in the true sense of the word, there are too many of these things that apply to them and this cannot be ignored. Most of the followers are sincere and they think they are doing the right thing and don't see the forest for the trees. When I was active, I suspected they might be a cult but I "rationalized" that maybe a cult could be "okay" if it was the "true" religion.

As far as having an endless list of do's and don't's: this happens gradually because it could not be tolerated if it happened all at once. People would run out the door immediately if it did. And I heard the story about the frog in the pot who was being slowly cooked because the water got hot gradually. If it was instantly hot the frog would jump out.

LHG

jgnat

36. Confession Sessions. Can you say judicial committee?

I kept this one off specifically, as rescue asked when the sessions occur. He was under the impression that all cults have regular public confessionals. No, the WT does it behind closed doors. But you are right. It does happen.

42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers. High incidence of mental ilness in the borg. Most often passesunrecognized.

I have yet to see hard evidence of this. I would believe there is a higher incidence of depressed members.

87. Channeling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information. Claims of direction coming from the holy spirit and the 24 elders stationed around the throne?

Huh. You haven't SEEN channelling until you hook up with a charismatic or spiritist group. The WTBTS claims divine authority, but they don't babble ubha-ubha-herathere-thereathere to get their direction. They make up their doctrines as easily as the United Church does, opening the bible and picking a scripture to match.

95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult . – only spiritual death.Apostates will not be killed at Armageddon?

Good point. But at least the Witnesses don't hasten the angel's work by buying the gun.

99. Total immersion and total isolation. If one takes the indoctrination to heart, this is the psychological effect.

I've always thought the JW indoctrination is more insidious and long lasting because the converts must maintain their irrational beliefs in the face of plenty of evidence to the contrary (they walk in the world). They walk among us, maintaining their isolation. Neat, huh?

Open mind

You know that's what I don't like about JWD. Someone asks for help and they're just left hanging.
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JUST KIDDING!

Man did you guys ever pile on the info! Here's a tiny bit I can add.

dedpoet said:

You just can't prove to jws that they are in a cult, whatever evidence you produce.

jgnat said:

The best illustration I can think of on how to approach a loved one, is to imagine them as wandering along the edge of a cliff. Would you shout out a warning, lunge to grab her?

I'll restate it this way. If you try to show a JW that they're in a cult, you might as well walk up and say: "Hi! I'm an Apostate! Care to sit down and associate for a while?" It's the dub equivalent of asking a householder, "Would you like to have a Free Home Bible Study?"

So, my $.02........................just give up on trying to pin the word "cult"
on the dubs. It's way too much of a hot button word.

Here's my rough plan to use with my wife someday when the "cult" word comes up.

1. Discuss the definition of the word and show that there really is no consensus on exactly what it means.

Example: The first two definitions of "cult" in my Webster's could easily be pinned on ANY religion. Including Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, etc.

Here's definition #1: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP definition #2 a system of religious beliefs and ritual: also, its body of adherents

I think for most people that doesn't really match up to their own "personal definition" of what a cult means.

So use that as a starting point. I think it might take some of the "scariness" out of the word. You could say, "According to Webster's, ALL religions are cults, even JWs. But most people probably think of really extreme groups like the moonies or Jim Jones when they think of cults. And I don't think the JWs fall into that category..." Then, very carefully, try to go on to look at how much control a church tries to exert over its members. Is it healthy and necessary? Or a little too much?

OTWO said:

I would start not with "It's a cult" but rather "It's a mind-control cult."

OTWO has given me much good advice so far, but I would humbly suggest a slight alteration to his approach. How about this: "I wouldn't say the JWs are a CULT (make sure to stifle your gag reflex) but they do seem to be a little on the High Control side of things, don't you think?"

Then you've set the stage to pick and choose as many of the various cult features that Nvrgnbk and jwfacts have so copiously provided. All the while keeping in mind the sage advice of jgnat with her "cliff illustration":

Rather, you would approach quietly, calmly and reasonably, coaxing her closer to you. That is how to remove her from danger. Keep this in mind always.

Well, that's my plan on paper. I wish you luck with gently persuading your friend.

Open Mind

OnTheWayOut

OTWO said:
I would start not with "It's a cult" but rather "It's a mind-control cult."
OTWO has given me much good advice so far, but I would humbly suggest a slight alteration to his approach. How about this: "I wouldn't say the JWs are a CULT (make sure to stifle your gag reflex) but they do seem to be a little on the High Control side of things, don't you think?"
Then you've set the stage to pick and choose as many of the various cult features that Nvrgnbk and jwfacts have so copiously provided. All the while keeping in mind the sage advice of jgnat with her "cliff illustration":

Your decision to use this way to start the discussion is valid. My purpose was not stated clearly, as I look back.
They will argue that they are not a cult. They will apply the definition of "cult" that they like, and say how they are
not a "small group" or "followers of a leader" or "live in a compound" or "isolate themselves from family or others."
Since they are going to argue from the start, I would choose to insert the words "mind-control" into the discussion.

That gives me a better chance to define the cult. It's not the compound or the size of the group. It's what they do
that makes them a cult.

Your way might be better. I have never had this argument, except partially with the wife. I am a fader that can't
directly have this discussion with active JW's. JW's freak out at being called a "cult" so "high control" might
work for you.

The Dragon

It's not a cult..it is an misleading organization that preys upon it's followers..and allows a wayward government to do so as well.

True leaders lead a charge people...not order and follow one.......just remember that ok.

Reasons its a cult...

I. Behavior Control

II. Information Control

III. Thought Control

IV. Emotional Control

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