Sketches of Revelation, this and that

by TerryWalstrom 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TerryWalstrom
    TerryWalstrom


    I've been rummaging around on Bart Ehrman's blog and such and managed to distill six cogent views about

    the Book of Revelation, I thought I share for whatever it is worth. (ehrmanblog.org/)


    1. Parts of the book of Revelation could scarcely be explained if it were written by Jesus’ own disciple, John.

    The author, for example, occasionally mentions “the apostles,” but he never indicates that he is one of them (e.g., 21:14). Even more intriguingly, at one point of the narrative the prophet sees twenty-four elders around the throne of God (chap. 4). Most interpreters understand these figures to represent the twelve Jewish Patriarchs and the twelve apostles of Jesus (cf. 21:12, 14); among them, of course, would be the two sons of Zebedee. But the author gives no indication that he is seeing himself! It appears then that the book was written by some other Christian named John, a prophet who was known to several of the churches of Asia Minor.

    2, On the basis of a detailed study of all such clues in the text, most investigators think that parts of the book were written during the sixties of the Common Era, soon after the persecution of the Christians under Nero. If one begins counting with Julius Caesar, Nero happens to have been the sixth ruler of Rome. He was also one of the author’s chief enemies. The book was evidently not completed, however, until some thirty years or so later, probably around 95 CE during the reign of Domitian.

    3. The use of a pseudonym made particularly good sense for apocalypses of the “historical sketch” type. For by pretending to be someone living in the distant past, an author could “predict” the future with remarkable accuracy: he was, after all, living after the events that he “predicted”! A typical ploy, then, was to write in the name of a prophet from ancient times who revealed a number of events that were to take place. When the author then continued to predict what was soon to happen in his own day — the reader didn’t know when this was, of course, since the author claimed to be writing from the distant past — he was naturally granted the benefit of the doubt. That is to say, these “future” events (from the time of the reader) were just as certain to occur as those that had already happened. The prophet had been right about everything else; surely he was also right about what would come next!

    Note: The first apocalypse known to use this ploy came to be included in the Hebrew Bible. It is the book of Daniel, allegedly written by the great wise man of the sixth century BCE during the days of the Babylonian captivity, but actually written, in the judgment of almost all critical scholars, sometime during the period of suffering associated with the Maccabean revolt, some 400 years later. No wonder “Daniel” could predict the rise of the Persians and the Greeks, and even more accurately detail events that were to transpire near the time of the Jewish uprising. The author of these “prophecies” lived after they had taken place.

    4. The “great city” that ruled the world in John’s day was obviously Rome, commonly called the city “built on seven hills” (hence the beast’s seven heads). Thus this vision is about the city of Rome, which was supported by the Devil himself, a city that had corrupted the nations (the whore who fornicates with the kings of earth), that exploited the peoples of earth (she is bedecked in fine clothing and jewelry), and that persecuted the Christians (she is drunk with the blood of the martyrs). Why is she called Babylon? This symbol too is clear for those who know the Old Testament, where Babylon is portrayed as the archenemy of God, the city whose armies devastated Judah, leveled Jerusalem, and destroyed the Temple in 587 BCE. In Revelation, then, “Babylon” is a code name for the city opposed to God — Rome, God’s principal enemy. Like Babylon of old, Rome too will be destroyed (v. 16). Indeed, this is the point of much of the entire book. The enemy of the Christians, Rome of the first century, would soon be destroyed in a cataclysmic display of divine power.

    5. My sense is that once the book was being read outside of the community in which it was written, the original interpretation of it came to be lost. (But I should also say that lots of early church fathers were not in favor of including it in the canon.)

    6. Does anyone think the early Christians living in 95-105 AD could understand more than the general message? Less than 5% of the population in the first century was able to read and write. Nobody can remember half the imagery, time spans, vials/wrath and chronology after someone has read Revelation to them one time - Impossible. The illiterate Christian living in the first/second centuries could not have grasped and understood the chart data. This leads me to an important rule in biblical exegesis: The text cannot mean to us what it could NOT have meant to the original audience.

    This is not a very popular rule. Eusebius (who was far more skeptical) cites Dionysius of Alexandria, from his work "On the Promises," as saying about the Revelation:
    "Yet, having formed an idea of it as a composition exceeding my capacity of understanding, I regard it as containing a kind of hidden and wonderful intelligence on the several subjects which come under it. For though I cannot comprehend it, I still suspect that there is some deeper sense underlying the words." Ecc. Hist. VII.25
  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    "It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Book of Revelation], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherencies of our own nightly dreams ... I cannot so far respect them as to consider them as an allegorical narrative of events, past or subsequent. There is not enough coherence in them to countenance any suite of rational ideas.... What has no meaning admits no explanation. And pardon me if I say, with the candor of friendship, that I think your time too valuable, and your understanding of too high an order, to be wasted on these paralogisms. You will perceive, I hope, also that I do not consider them as reveladons of the supreme being, whom I would not so far blaspheme as to impute to him a pretension of revelation, couched at the same time in terms which, he would know, were never to be understood by those to whom they were addressed."

    Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, January 17, 1825

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Less than 5% of the population in the first century was able to read and write.

    Which sets up the assertion that the stories of Jesus Christ were expressively embellished stories created as such to make for a greater appealing relevance to this new and better God in the established Roman cultural civilization.


  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    One thing is for sure, none of it is a prophecy for our day.

    The irrational fear of Armageddon can be confined to the same place as the Boogie man and Snakes under the bed.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Phizzy - "The irrational fear of Armageddon can be confined to the same place as the Boogie man..."

    Oh, I don't know.

    As adults, people tend to grow out of their fear of the Boogieman.

    Not quite so with Apocalypticism.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I agree Vid, but the fear of the Big A is just as childish and baseless, and yet it is all that holds some in the JW religion.

    Others have more reasons, family etc, but even then the Big A fear is often a key component for them.

    They need to grow out of it.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    I particularly like the idea that the text cannot mean to us what it could not have meant to them. I often, when they insist on trying to tell me I am going to hell, challenge them to tell me which Bible prophecy specifically came true. I have done that on the forum and, when they constantly mention the UN, Obama, WWII, etc., I point out that is THEM saying it means that, the "prophecy" doesn't say anything of the sort. When they mention Jerusalem being destroyed, I mention that the Bible doesn't say when or by whom, they are adding that, all the "prophecy" is doing is saying that something that happened before would happen again DURING a time a rebellion was going on (assuming it was written prior to the events described, which there is no proof for).

    Bart Earhman is fantastic.

  • Half banana
    Half banana
    And Thomas Jefferson was too...
  • TerryWalstrom
    TerryWalstrom

    I view Ehrman as a breath of fresh air. He's sort of like Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. An honest man totally-out-of-place among cronies.

    Arguably, until Ehrman, few Bible scholars or New Testament experts wrote best-selling books about the Bible.

    I subscribe to his blog and I wish there had been something like this decades ago. But of course, it took Al Gore's invention of the Internet to make debunking possible in an international, highly visible way :)

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Terry, I haven’t kept up with Erhman’s ”beliefs” as opposed to his knowledge of Biblical texts. Is he still a believer?

    I would normally suggest people avoid ”Biblical scholars” since their partisan beliefs and faith interfere with objective evaluation of texts. Has Bart E made the change to the disinterested academic approach or is he still hanging in there as a believer?

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