Interesting point about the WT-UN thing

by comment 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  comment

  It's easy to document that there have been dozens of derogatory statements about the UN in Watchtower publications in the years since the Society gained NGO status.

  We already know that the brothers were not informed about this status. And in the early 1990's, it would have been considerably harder for the brothers to find out. Why would any of them even think to visit or phone the UN and ask, "Is the Watchtower Society in any way associated with your organization?"

  As long as the Society maintained a low profile with the UN--which they appear to have done--it's possible that their status could have continued undetected for many years to come.

  HOWEVER, the UN DPI must be quite upset with its own failure to thoroughly investigate the Watchtower's views on the UN, which must be at least embarrassing if not completely intolerable to them. They may be considerably more upset than we know--not just bemused.

  Presumably any literature that was presented to the UN during the application process involved things like nice Awake! magazines on the environment and women's rights, with nothing more than a discreet "Soon God will cleanse the earth of wickedness and people everywhere will no longer suffer under the tyranny of ______."

  Still, the Society publishes so much stuff that it's *remarkable* that not once in the last ten years (until now) did anyone working for the UN thumb through a "hard-hitting" Watchtower article that referred to the "disgusting thing" and the "scarlet-colored wild beast." Especially considering both organizations are headquartered in New York!

  I think it's remarkable even though the Society probably occupies very little of the UN DPI's thoughts on a normal day.

  Now we just have to wait and see if the Society will a) be disfellowshipped b) disassociate itself c) be reproved and put on probation to demonstrate "works befitting repentance" d) suffer no consequences at all.

  And of course, we'll see how they justify their choice in association to both Witnesses and the public at large.

  comment
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  Skimmer

  I predict that there will be only a limited fallout form the UN/NGO registration. Why do I say this?

  1) Only a little while before signing up with the UN, the WTBTS had gotten into bed with Jimmy Swaggart in a failed attempt to avoid sales tax. And nothing much has come from that.

  2) My impression is that the average intellectual ability of the typical rank and file JW of today is less than that of ten years ago and much less than that of some thirty years ago when I was (briefly) involved. Compare the literature from those times and you will agree. So, the general lack of critical thinking and potential skepticism prevalent today will prevent all but a few from making the connection with NGO status and the continuing hypocrisy of the WTBTS.
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  dungbeetle

  I've said it before and I'll say it again...the best and the brightest in the JW have long...long....gone.

  I don't understand why some people just don't accept that *the ones they love have chosen their religion over their family.* Yes it hurts and yes it isn't fair....but nevertheless that is their choice.

  No they don't come right out and say so. They say things like.."well, it's no big deal' or 'well, that's from an apostate source' or 'well,they're just imperfect people'.

  *But the truth is, they chose their religion over the people that love them.*

  And people that have made this choice don't give a rat's ass about the UN or children dead from denial of blood or young men dead from refusal of alternative service or whole families raped and murdered because of failure to pay a 25 cent tax.

  And that is why the WT garners very little accountability from its members for what they do. JW's have what they want already. At least most of them anyway.

  And I really really hope I'm wrong.

  Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...
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  TheOldHippie

  Well, I see I am being ascribed very little morale and honour from you guys .......
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  dungbeetle

  Oh Hippie...you're family. You're different.

  Unless you think that's an insult.

  Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...
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  chasson

  Skimmer: 2) My impression is that the average intellectual ability of the typical rank and file JW of today is less than that of ten years ago and much less than that of some thirty years ago when I was (briefly) involved. Compare the literature from those times and you will agree. So, the general lack of critical thinking and potential skepticism prevalent today will prevent all but a few from making the connection with NGO status and the continuing hypocrisy of the WTBTS.

  Very good point Skimmer, when you read the last book on the Daniel's prophecy and the one just before, there is a big difference. Now, Watchtower don't try to prove anithing, this is only assertion. (1919, etc...)

  Jdub are now less Bible's student than before, even if in the 70's their Bible Scholarship was still very poor.

  Bye

  Charles
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  LittleToe

  Comment:

  And in the early 1990's, it would have been considerably harder for the brothers to find out.

  THANK YOU !!!

  You start to take the internet for granted, after a while.
  I knew something was nagging me, and this is it:
  The Internet only went truly mainstream around '95.

  I wonder how many more things will turn up as the world continues to go "all-electronic".

  LT
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  logical

  Will there be robots, like R2D2? Lets hope they arent like Marvin.
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  Room 215

  Hi Skimmer, Chasson, Comment, and others.
  The point about the prgressive ``dumbing down'' of the rank and file is well taken, one I made yesterday in reply to Bathory on a relaed thread.
  I haven't checked this out personally, but I would bet that the WT uses the Awake! as its vehicle for laudatory/conciliatory remarks about the U.N., and submits these to the DPI as proof of compliance with NGO rules, saving its diatribes of the U.N. for the WT and books. Another case of selling short the intellignce of its readers.
  Also, it's mainly because of the internet's emergence that the Society can no longer operate in a dark corner. The Internet, and its capacity for exchange of information and disclosure under the cloak of anonymity, is the Society's worst nightmare... and it's only the beginning.
  Maybe 1995 is a year marked in Bible prophecy as the WTs darkest hour.
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  hawkaw

  Hi Comment,

  I thought maybe as someone who has actually talked to a couple of people at DPI, namely Ms. Oca, I could respond to this thread.

  During my first few telephone calls she was okay with me and gave me as much information as she could without crossing the "confidentiality" line.

  But after two Monday's ago when Paul Hoeffel and the other members of DPI met, Ms. Oca's attitude had changed. After this meeting, she was very serious and could not provide any more information to me. She informed me last Tuesday or Wednesady that based on the meeting and the huge number of Emails and telephone calls from people outraged over the DPI decision to give the WTS associate status, the DPI has decided to review the WTS status with DPI. Thus an investigation is now on the go and they are taking it so seriously they won't allow any more information to be given to me. She did indicate to me that DPI is in "daily" contact with the WTS over this issue.

  This is a serious issue at DPI and to make it into a full blown investigation is a serious and political issue.

  What does DPI do with the WT. If it was a few weeks ago, I would have said a slap on the hand but now after what I know what has been sent to them by a few people who I won't mention (that will shock you) and the press getting involved, I am not sure.

  The whole thing will boil down to "optics". If I was Paul Hoeffel, Chief at DPI, I would quietly let the WTS go quickly while the press is preoccupied with the war issue. At a time when the UN is accused of having NGOs that are terrorist organizations, the UN can use the WTS issue to show the world they do kick out associated NGOs that don't behave.

  Its all in the "optics" now.

  I have a call into Paul Hoeffel and will try and find out more today while I fight to get the documents released.

  hawk