The "Truth" Hurts

by Cold Creek Swimmer 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Cold Creek Swimmer
    Cold Creek Swimmer

    It is finally out there. My dad has finally faced it. He screamed that I am "Apostate". I am 40 yo, and have been moving this way for years. I have purposely avoided the talk with my parents. I blew up at my dad back in January when all the hubbub was going on about how Matt. 24:14 had been considered fulfilled. He called to tell me the "End" was coming because the WTBS said so. I lost it and told him to quit trying to scare me vack to meetings. I even asked him "Are you calling to tell me the End is coming-AGAIN?" I went on a little tirade and finally he asked if I was done, and I said that I was-finally-and hung up the phone.

    I haven't seen them since then. Haven't talked to them since. I was in their town last week, so I thought I would stop by. We did the obligatory small talk. Very uncomfortable. Then pop, who is an elder, gets to the meat. Wants to know what my problems are. He, of course, already knows that deep down I know it is the truth. I disagree. 1st time ever. I tell him that the only thing I need is the bible. He asks what religion is going to bring me to god? "Not a single one. I do not need an organization to tell me how to live my life. I have all the principles right in front of me. I have the bible." I only wish I could have kept my cool.

    It got ugly after that. I lost it. I do not yet understand where all of this anger is from. I cannot have a single discussion with anyone on this topic without there being anger on my side. I did not want to talk to my folks about this because I knew it would get ugly. When I started to speak about Russell and Rutherford, he asked "Why? What do they have to do with anything? Are you going to bring up Knorr too ?" I was stunned. He actually does not think that these MEN were influential in his religion. When I dared to call the dubs a religion, he was dumfounded that I would even think of them as a religion. I had forgotten how wrong it is as a dub to refer to the dubs as a religion.

    I then said that in 2500 years the bible, except for translation changes, had basically remained the same. But in the history of the dubs, nothing was the same. "What happened dad? Did God change his mind? This is God's voice on earth and he can't keep make up his mind?" I then grabbed the Revelation book and tried to read something from it. At that point he also lost it and started the battle cry for dubs that gives them their arrogance and protection. "YOU ARE AN APOSTATE! YOU ARE AN APOSTATE! YOU HAVE COMMITTED IMMORALITY AND THAT GUILT IS WHY YOU CANNOT ACCEPT THE TRUTH!" He grabbed the book from me and told me to get out. I left. I was so angry and more words passed on my way out, but I don't really remember what was said.

    I drove away mad. 2 minutes later I was on my way back. I could not leave it like that. I went back, my mom let me in and I told her that I loved them both and that I did not come to their house to have this discussion. I respected their faith and apologized for being disrespectful in their home. My mom was fine. She got my pop and I had to say it all over again. He was still hot and barely accepted my olive branch. I never backed down about how I feel, I just wanted them to know that no matter what, they were my parents and my anger was not justified. As I walked out the door, I told mhy mom that it was obvious that they would no longer speak with me. she said she would always talk to me-regardless. I then said " Mom, the bible does not teach such a thing. It does not tell us to shun each other for different beliefs. The bible teaches love mom, not hatred." Then I left.

    Needless to say, this affected me more than I thought it wpould. What my father chooses to do with the info I have no idea. I do not currently belong to any congo, so it would be difficult to talk to an elder about me. My wife and kids go haphazardly to a hall, but I honestly think he won't do anything. For him, the loss of face by admitting that his son is apostate will probably keep him quiet. As long as I don't make any waves with the rest of the family, then I think I can just be considered inactive. My only concern is the los of friends in a different city if he pursues this any further. I want it both ways.

    If people think I go, but am not apostate, then I can still talk to them. Also, it makes it easier on my family. I am still a little stunned about the whole immorality issue. Apparently a person is not able to think on their own unless they have sinned. It is amazing to me that the immediate "out" to excuse my attitude is sin. "He is running from his sin." How transparent is that? Noone will ever leave the dubs if they 1st don't sin. That is probably the most telling and enlightening thing to come out of this. Think about it. It is very similar to what happened to Eve and Adam. They disobey, so suddenly they realize they are naked. I do not believe, therefore I must have sinned. If that is all it took to get my mind right, I would have done it years ago and never stopped. I have a wife and kids. I will not lose them for something so unimportant as immorality. My life is good, why would I risk the loss of it? I already am traveling a tough path caused by my current stand. I am not going to make it that much more difficult.

    Anyway, that is my rant. I have got to get to work. I had to get this out. Thanks for the hearing ear. I will check back tonight for any good thoughts.

    CCS

  • aSphereisnotaCircle
    aSphereisnotaCircle
    I do not yet understand where all of this anger is from. I cannot have a single discussion with anyone on this topic without there being anger on my side.

    I can relate to thes very well. I'm a pretty mild mannered person, but when I start talking to any dubs, this rage comes up that surprises me.

    I've finally decide to get counseling for it, still just getting started though, so can't say that it's helped yet.

    But yeah, I totally understand the rage, I started feeling it just reading your post.

  • aSphereisnotaCircle
    aSphereisnotaCircle

    Btw I like your thread title.

    it would make a good bumper sticker,

  • daystar
    daystar
    I am still a little stunned about the whole immorality issue. Apparently a person is not able to think on their own unless they have sinned. It is amazing to me that the immediate "out" to excuse my attitude is sin. "He is running from his sin." How transparent is that? Noone will ever leave the dubs if they 1st don't sin. That is probably the most telling and enlightening thing to come out of this. Think about it. It is very similar to what happened to Eve and Adam. They disobey, so suddenly they realize they are naked. I do not believe, therefore I must have sinned. If that is all it took to get my mind right, I would have done it years ago and never stopped. I have a wife and kids. I will not lose them for something so unimportant as immorality.

    According to the bible, we are all sinners just by way of having been born. Sooo... the argument used is rather silly. But, they always assume that, don't they? If someone leaves, it must be because they've sinned!

    My opinion is that the sect's rules are so draconian that one can't help but "sin". And the "sins" become so unnaturally magnified!

    It's horrific.

  • Shawn10538
    Shawn10538

    I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. They are very similar to mine. Unfortunately for those who leave a cult, anger is a byproduct of leaving. Read up on Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control, and PLEASE, get a therapist and keep them for the rest of your life. There is nothing quite like a good therapist to help you channel your anger. I suggest re-reading your post in about 6 months to review the things you did and said that were counter productive. But right off the top, Dude, you gotta keep your cool. If you don't think you can talk about something without getting angry, then best not talk about it, unless it's with a therapist or a close non-witness friend. You have lost considerable ground with your parents due to your inability to stay calm and now their defenses are up. That's not what you want if you want them to grow intellectually and develop free thinking. You must now be the grown up in this situation. I would seek some type of resolution with them if I were you. Go back in a few months and admit you were wrong, and promise alegiance from that day forward. Then, ever so slowly, start slipping in subliminal messages. Connect with your parents in Non-witness related waysm(ie. go hunting with dad, take mom out to a play. You cannot help them if they think you are an apostate.
    Also, usually those who can't control their anger in a situation like this are the least secure about their beliefs. Do not let that be so in your case. You must be able to argue, though ever so slightly, for your side of the issue. You have to be solid and have all your ducks in a row. Then ever so gently pursue those arguments. But if they get triggered and become defensive, STOP! You've gone too far, it's time to retreat so that you can continue another day.

  • M.J.
    M.J.
    "YOU ARE AN APOSTATE! YOU ARE AN APOSTATE! YOU HAVE COMMITTED IMMORALITY AND THAT GUILT IS WHY YOU CANNOT ACCEPT THE TRUTH!"

    That is an example of thought-stopping. As soon as the mind reaches a threshold of discomfort where it simply can't deal with the dissonant input anymore, the thought stopping defense mechanism kicks in. Trash the source of the input. Now he has a reason to discredit everything you were saying and resolve the mental conflict.

    Check out this article. It's related to Mormonism, but it's exactly the same issue:

    http://www.ptm.org/07PT/MayJun/BeliefsCollapse.pdf

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    CCS,

    So sorry for what you've gone through, although very typical. It is so very easy to start name calling, such as "apostate", "immoral" etc. The apostates are then accused of being so angry. Who is the first to be angry? Who is the first to start labeling a person when all they are doing is using their god given right to choose and question?

    In any other main stream religion or club etc., an individual has the right to leave anytime and no one thinks any lesser of the person. Not so with JW's, thereby earning the "cult" label.

    I think you did the right thing turning around and offering an olive branch, that took much out of you I'm sure. It says a lot about who you are and you can hold your head high knowing you were the bigger person in all of this.

    Best wishes.

    r.

  • startingover
    startingover

    I can really relate to that! Some times it gets way too frustrating to handle.

    When I was still involved, I gave a public talk on the new creation book when it came out, and then years later when I discovered that some of the quotes in the book were taken out of context and were entirely misapplied, it really upset me and I showed them to my parents. They told me they didn't think they were misapplied at all, and then when told of the UN scandal, they told me they thought it was just fine for the WTS to be involved with the UN. My dad was into chronology, and when I showed him the king's list calculated from quotes from WT literature which made 607 wrong, he made an attempt to justify it, but after I refuted it he just dropped it. I then asked him in his entire association with the JW's if he had ever done any research outside what was provided by the WTS, and he admitted he hadn't, explaining that he felt there was just way too much out there for him to do that.

    That statement made me realize what had happened and I was able to let it go with them. But I still have problems with others who play dump truck religion and drop a load on me (which to me is guilt inducing) and then try to leave when I feel the need to talk stand up for myself.

    For me, in analyzing the situation, guilt really comes into play. It's not a guilt that comes from doing something wrong, it's a guilt that comes from being displeasing to someone important in your life. I don't think anyone likes to be in that situation. When people became displeased with me, it was because I was doing what I thought was right and taking a stand for it. I have tried to explain that situation to my JW family, but they have told me they don't care and don't even want to hear about it. Knowing that situation exists make it easy (at least for me) to come across as angry whenever you get into a conversation with them about the religion.

    FYI, I too was acused of immorality as a reason.

  • bluebell
    bluebell

    I drove away mad. 2 minutes later I was on my way back. I could not leave it like that. I went back, my mom let me in and I told her that I loved them both and that I did not come to their house to have this discussion. I respected their faith and apologized for being disrespectful in their home. My mom was fine. She got my pop and I had to say it all over again. He was still hot and barely accepted my olive branch. I never backed down about how I feel, I just wanted them to know that no matter what, they were my parents and my anger was not justified. As I walked out the door, I told mhy mom that it was obvious that they would no longer speak with me. she said she would always talk to me-regardless. I then said " Mom, the bible does not teach such a thing. It does not tell us to shun each other for different beliefs. The bible teaches love mom, not hatred." Then I left.

    I thought that was really big of you, well done for showing love, even if love is not shown to you. Their love may be conditional but we can show that ours is not : if they don't want to talk to us, fine - but our door is always open. Don't stoop to their level.

    I was brought up not to lose my temper and not to fight over anything, to let other people (ie my father) do what they want. Wish I could "vent my spleen" (as my hubby calls it), I am learning to fight for my right to think what I think,hubby is helping me get over the submissive wife brainwashing. A little bit of anger is healthy as long as you don't let it take over and get bitter.

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote
    I told her that I loved them both and that I did not come to their house to have this discussion. I respected their faith and apologized for being disrespectful in their home. My mom was fine. She got my pop and I had to say it all over again. He was still hot and barely accepted my olive branch. I never backed down about how I feel, I just wanted them to know that no matter what, they were my parents and my anger was not justified.

    On the contrary. Your anger is justified and no religion deserves all the respect it is granted, most particularly a cult religion.

    Being disrespected by your father should anger you; he disrespected you by not allowing you to finish making your point and by screaming name-calling at you.

    Is "apostate" really the best they can come up with?

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