Worthless without Watchtower

joelbear

I see so many posts here saying that Jehovah's Witnesses are brain dead. I just don't think that is the case. I think its worse than that. I think a lot of witnesses brains are quite alive but are unreachable because of their dependence on the society for a feeling of worth.

I know that I was taught as a child that I was worthless. The only thing I could do to gain worth was attend meetings, answer questions at meeting, give talks and go out in service. I was a straight A student in elementary school but this fact was ignored by my parents and my pseudo parents at the Kingdom Hall that included 2 of the annointed. I was rewarded with recognition only for placing magazines and books. Guess what I became very good at doing.

I continue to battle waves of feelings that I am worthless. I am beginning to wonder if my violent reaction to Tally's post regarding witnesses celebrating on top of Bethel comes from some deep seated need in me to protect the Watchtower where so much of my self worth was (is?) vested.

We are all conditioned by rewards and punishments handed to us throughout our lives, but I think the ones handed out in childhood remain magnified in us forever.

I think calling witnesses brain dead is a disservice to them. They are our brothers and sisters. They are undergoing the same conditioning and reinforcement that we underwent for years. I don't believe they are braindead. I do think they are trapped and we are trapped along with them because of our love for them.

We all need to get out of this trap together.

I hope Tally comes back. We are both fighting the same demons. I am sorry that I fought with him.

Joel

ladonna

Hi Joelbear,

I know that I was taught as a child that I was worthless. The only thing I could do to gain worth was attend meetings, answer questions at meeting, give talks and go out in service. I was a straight A student in elementary school but this fact was ignored by my parents and my pseudo parents at the Kingdom Hall that included 2 of the annointed. I was rewarded with recognition only for placing magazines and books. Guess what I became very good at doing.

Joelbear, you have described most of our childhoods, and most of there outcomes. You are right, none of our academia was seen as important or relevant.

I, like you, believed my self worth was based solely on the grounds of how "good" I could perform. This is something that I also placed upon myself. Continual praying was my outlet. I would pray and pray before going to sleep every night.....unfortunately I had so many 'sins' to confess that I frequently fell asleep on God.
The next night I would have to spend half hour apologizing to him. By the time I got through with that and then praying for everyone else and then my sins.....well.....you guessed it......I fell asleep before the "in Jesus name" bit.

Continual anxiety and guilt were the order of the day. I was 'never' good enough.
It is only now that I can feel free from the anxiety. But it took many years of damn good therapy of which I am not ashamed to admitt.

I agree in part with what you have to say about defending JW's as we were once like them, but I draw a line at those of us that had no choice, as we were born into it.....in my case I was adopted by JW parents.

I always prayed for another set of parents..........

Crazy eh?

Ana

ashitaka

joel, ladonna, that's your posts hit home and make a lot of sense.

ash

"I pray that I may never see the desert again-hear me God."-Robert Bolt

bboyneko

Joelbear ever watch THE MATRIX?

In it they are attacked by braindead cops and others who they were just like at one point, enslaved in a mass collective they wernt even aware exsisted. But because they are still braindead, they must fight them and sometimes kill them.

Im not saying kill JW's, im saying that while a JW is still a JW, you must fight back and even be mean to them. Until they up and write their DA letter you gotta be defensive against those who hate who you are and wish you dead.
-Dan

joelbear

Bboy,

I disagree.

In your analogy The cops in the Matrix were not humans, they were computer generated "false humans", thus having the ability to manipulate their surroundings.

The real humans were all completely unaware of their "false lives". They were not the enemy and fighting them would have done absolutely zero good.

I think our fight is similar, we have to fight the power behind the falseness that keeps our families and friends in their "brain dead" condition. We don't do this by fighting them or "being mean" to them. That just reinforces that we are the enemy and that "The Matrix" is where they should be.

Joel

mommy

Joel,
I understand what you are saying. I know many wonderful, intelligent jw's. There is something I saw you post in another thread, and I beg to differ.

They are our brothers and sisters.

They are not your brothers and sisters. Joel, they condemn you, and want no part of you because of who you are. Do you beleive in all that the org teaches? Do you beleive that the F&DS is governed by Jehovah? Do you hold all of their ideals? I know one of them, sexualality that you do not. You are not in agreement with them on this issue.

You may feel a kinship to them, but you will not walk side by side with them. You must accept this. I personally feel a great sadness when I see so many people working so hard for a goal they believe in. They often turn away from commen sense because of information drilled into their head. It is not their fault. They did not ask to be led in such a way, and they are not even aware of it.

I have changed my opinion alot over the last 10 months I have been here. At first I thought let them stay in, let them live in ignorant bliss. Now I am compelled to talk about my feelings. I feel responsible for allowing them to continue wasting their lives. Perhaps next week I will change my opinion again. Such is life.

This time is very hard for all of us. Please do not forget that you have many here who worry about you, and care for you. I hope you can find some peace of mind and heart, as you continue to sort through your feelings on this matter.
wendy

Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

joelbear

Hi Wendy,

I appreciate your input. I still think they are our brothers and sisters. They are victims of the same abuse we are victims of, I am convinced of that.

I see my parents as victims. I see my brother and his family as victims. I see anyone who has ever been affected or is still affected by the manipulation and conditioning of the Watchtower as victims.

They aren't the enemy. Approaching them as if they are is misdirecting our anger and our energy.

take care

Joel

TR

Joel,

Come on! You know that when we use the term 'braindead' we actually mean that JWs are unwilling to use their brain to see the truth behind the trooth, and are as you said, dependent on the WTS.

TR

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
—Edmund Burke

joelbear

I disagree that they are unwilling.

I believe the more correct term is "unable at this time" due to behavior modification, conditioning, mental cruelty, psychological terrorism (shunning) etc.

Sorry, I will save my condemnation for the organizational groupthink that allows this entrapment and not for the individual Jehovah's Witness.

peace

Joel

wannahelp

Very interesting thread..

I can only imagine what ex-jw's feel like having to leave family and friends behind, trying to reach them. My JW friend is in the process of ending any contact with me.. Interestingly enough, I feel I let him down in some way, because I was unable to open his eyes... I feel guilty, not sad because I probably will not see him again.

In some way, I know that he believes his 'happiness' depends on severing ties with me.. So, all I can hope for is that his ending the friendship will indeed give him some happiness in his life, because you know, and I can assume, exactly what his life will be like as a JW..

So, hopefully his ending his friendship with me will cause him some happiness.. I have no idea what it does, but I hope somehow someway his decision to end it will cause him joy, even if misplaced..

I can only assume that the people with family and close friends still in the organization, this feeling is intensified 1000%.. He is only my friend, only known him for a little over a year, and yet I feel really guilty that I couldn't reach him, and his fiancee..

I know the way they are supposed to think of me, hatred, want me to die, etc.. And all that does is re-enforce my guilt that I couldn't reach him.. It does not anger me in the least that he feels that way towards me, as I, like Joel, consider him my brother, and his fiancee my sister..

I don't think you can be angry at JW's, as they no not what they do.. I love them with all my heart, feel extreme pity for them, and by turning the other cheek, and showing them what real love is, there is always a chance that eventually that will sink in with them.. If not, what harm does it do to love your 'enemy' instead of carry hatred in your heart?

The problem I have to learn to overcome, and I assume that is even stronger with ex-jw's, is the guilt of not being able to reach the JW's and show them the light...

I have a question for the ex-jw's.. Did you ever feel guilt that you couldn't reach 'worldly' people and show them the trooth when you were active JW's? How did you deal with that, assuming that you had guilt???

Worthless without Watchtower

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