How do I get a Witness to do some deep research on Russell? Any Pointers?

by NotaNess 16 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  NotaNess

  I feel Most Witnesses don't know of the history behind Russell and the beginnings of the society. They're bent on "Origins" of things, but we know that the WTS keeps material and knowledge to a minimal on the origins of the society, and specifically Russell. To a co-worker, I hinted at the pyramid memorial about Russell, and he said he didn't know what I was talking about (a 20 year JW veteran).

  Any pointers on how I can EASE the subject into "forbidden" conversation around the witnesses at work? They brought up the Adventist subject criticizing a SDA women one of them talked to on the street or something and it reminded me of Russell's beginnings.

  How shocked were you at finding out about the Pyramid Memorial?
• 

  horrible life

  How shocked were you at finding out about the Pyramid Memorial?

  Seriously, it gave me warm fuzzy feelings inside. I thought, this is perfect. Now how can I tell my brother and parents, without them going off the deep end with me.
• 

  cabasilas

  One idea:

  Go to Internet Archive and do a search under "Studies in the Scriptures"

  You'll get this:

  http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=studies%20in%20the%20scriptures

  Volume 3 of Studies is listed there and it has the long chapter on the Great Pyramid. It also has some other of Russell's books. These are copied from various libraries.

  You can get similar material under Google Book Search typing in "Millennial Dawn"

  Also, check out the online scan of The Finished Mystery on Google Books:

  http://books.google.com/books?id=dDQSOQV2RBIC

  Reading these files could start a host of conversations!
• 

  whyizit

  This recently happened with me. My JW friend kept hapring on how "if I only knew the history behind most Christian religions". So I asked her to give me some info. on the history of the WTS. Are they a branch of Advetists, Christadelphians, ??? How did they get their start?

  She sends me the entire Chapter 5 of the Proclaimer's book!

  Page 43- Ahhhh! So Russell was an Adventist!

  Pg. 45- Russell didn't like Adventists teaching everyone else is burned up. Don't JWs teach something similar? Everyone else is destroyed?

  Then you can go into the whole "he taught Christ came back in 1874 as "the LORD's TRUTH"????

  You get the idea.
• 

  Terry

  Try this.

  Get a good book on the William Miller movement concerning the return of Jesus Christ in 1843 and tell them to read it.

  Miller laid out the blueprint for self-studying the bible and creating an End Times rationale backed by charts and sermons and books.

  Miller convinced himself and tens of thousands of other mainstream christians of an event which never happened and radicalized their belief system. Among those he brought out of "Babylon the Great" were George Storrs and George Stetson.

  Point out that George Storrs, a fallout from the Great Disappointment, and George Stetson were a huge influence on Russell.

  From 1870 through 1875 the Russell family, and others, participated in an analytical study of both the Bible and the origins of Christian doctrine, creed, and tradition. "Millerite" Adventist ministers George Storrs, and George Stetson, were also closely involved. Russell's group believed they had found significant errors in common Christian belief. As a result of such study, the Russell family believed they had gained a clearer understanding of true Christianity, and were re-baptized in 1874.

  Next, ask them how Russell's ideas about the 2nd coming differed (in any substantial way) from the Adventist sect that resulted from the Millerite movement.

  Beliefs

  The doctrine of the Advent Christian Church includes belief in the Bible as the infallible rule of faith and practice, salvation available for all conditioned on repentance, faith, & faithfulness to God, and the imminent return of Jesus Christ. The doctrine of "soul-sleeping" and "conditional immortality" - We believe that death is a condition of unconsciousness to all persons, righteous and wicked; a condition which will remain unchanged until the resurrection at Christ's Second Coming, at which time the righteous will receive everlasting life while the wicked will be "punished with everlasting destruction;" suffering complete extinction of being - separates them from a number of other evangelical Christians. The church accepts two ordinances - water baptism of believers by immersion, and the Lord's supper.

  Ask how the Great Disappointment of 1843 differed in any way from Russell's 1914, 1918 predictions or Rutherford's 1925 "certainty".

  Miller, Storrs, Russell; three rings in one big looney circus.
• 

  greendawn

  They will try wiggle out of this by saying that what Russell said is now old light and understanding progressed since then with the FDS being given new revelations. But then again it's hard to imagine how Russell could have got most things wrong since the JWs believe little of what he taught though he is supposed to be their founder. That is strange.

  In addition he was greatly supported by the Jewish masonic zionists and is held in high respect by them to this day, that's how much he served them. To this day the Jewish influence is quite obvious in the JWs.
• 

  drew sagan

  How shocked were you at finding out about the Pyramid Memorial?

  Not very, being that I visited it after an assembly one day with a fellow JW. I actually visited the site with a sense of pride at the time, reflecting on how this man 'gave everything to the cause'.
  
  The 'Proclaimers' book does a pretty good job at creating a confusion as regards to the origin of this religion. The shock factor for a number of these things is taken away because they have finally at least admitted to them actually being there. Their previous position of denial caught up with them, and so in the 90s they made this very important change.
  
  Now that JWs can no longer be shocked with facts about their past (including their history book that denied many of the truths about Russell) different approaches are needed. You can show them where things used to be totally hidden, but then they will point to the place where they are now partially shown. How there can be 'new light' on a history book I'll never understand, but for them it works.
  
  I'm a big fan of seed planting and historical challenges. I'm also a fan of getting a person to 'team up' with you on certain research projects. Not directly challenging the society, but instead simply inviting a person to do honest research with you. This can possibly be done when you are an active JW and there is no cloud of the 'apostate' name around you.
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  slimboyfat

  I think this is the best academic treatment of early Russellism if you can access it:

  Beckford J (1972) 'The embryonic stage of a religious sect's development', Sociological Yearbook Of Religion In Britain, 5 11 - 32

  Slim
• 

  Gerard

  Use Quotes. It is unedited and without critical comments.

  http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/
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  carla

  I've found with my jw (convert) he doesn't care one bit about the old light, just proves jah is with them because things change not like the rest of Christendom. As for showing them the Millerite info, same thing. 'See, someone else believed as we do'. They will not get the fact that Miller was first and where are they today. They pryamids, aluminum from satan, air baths, and all the other assinine beliefs only prove the light is indeed getting brighter. They may even counter with 'did you know the early jw's (bible students) even celebrated Christmas??!! we don't today because the light got brighter'.

  Might as well hit your head against the wall, the result be over quicker and less painful.