DNA & SOFT TISSUE CONFIRMED IN 68 "MILLION" YEAR T-REX !

by Perry 66 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    Leolia,

    Would you be more comfortable with the word protein? DNA is a protein isn't it?

    The National Science Foundation (NSF) is an independent federal agency that supports fundamental research and education across all fields of science and engineering, with an annual budget of $5.91 billion

    The title caption in the illustration from their scientific journal announces:

    Ancient Proteins Sequenced Today

    So,how can you state:

    There was no DNA extacted or sequenced as implied by the thread title.

    Proteins are found in every cell and are essential to every biological process, protein structure is very complex: determining a protein's structure involves first protein sequencing - determining the amino acid sequences of its constituent peptides; and also determining what conformation it adopts and whether it is complexed with any non-peptide molecules. Discovering the structures and functions of proteins in living organisms is an important tool for understanding cellular processes, and allows drugs that target specific metabolic pathways to be invented more easily.

    Proteins which DNA is one of, are very delicate and it is unheard of that something that degrades so easily would be in 80 million years old Dinosaur bone. But, that is exactly what another scientist is claiming,15 million years older that the recent Harvard sample:

    DNA Extracted from Dinosaur Bones



    UTAH SCIENTIST SAYS HE HAS EXTRACTED DNA FROM DINOSAUR BONES By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD N.Y. Times 
    http://dml.cmnh.org/1994Nov/msg00285.html
     
    Aren't you missing the forest for the trees here? Even if you are technically correct?
  • Kudra
    Kudra

    In none of those (actual scientific) articles does the term DNA come up...

    and as for the "DNA extracted from dino bones" article...

    it says this:

    "But the fragments were too small to be identified definitely as dinosaurian."

    and:

    "Other scientists, however, are skeptical of the research and want to see the
    results tested further by independent laboratories."

    and:

    "the DNA could be contamination from some organisms that had
    entered the bones later."

    and:

    "Granted they have something, but I have no idea what it really is," said Dr.
    Mark A. Norell, a paleontologist at the American Museum of Natural History in
    Manhattan. "I don't think they can show definitely that those are dinosaur
    bone."

  • Perry
    Perry

    Kudra,

    The scientist still firmly believes that he extraced DNA from dinosaur bone back in '94, even though others questioned. However, this is not the case with the recent Harvard verification of sequencing proteins from 65 million year old dinosaur bone. It's PROVEN.

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    Perry -

    I'm not up on this story really (this latest one) but I believe that it was proteins, not DNA. DNA is a type of protein but I believe there are many other proteins that are not DNA and I think that it is one of those that they found.

    I think you may be getting hung up on the word "sequenced" which so often goes along with "DNA". I think that you may be able to sequence a protein while anything to do with DNA is not in the picture. But I am just putting things together from what I read just now...

    I looked through the article on the NSF site and I did not see mention of DNA...

    Anyone who is in the know on proteins v. DNA and whether you can sequence stuff w/o there being DNA present, feel free to pipe up.

    He'p us!

  • TD
    TD
    ....DNA is a protein isn't it?

    No.

    Proteins are composed of peptide chains of amino acid reisdues. There are roughly 20 standard amino acids used by life as we know it. When a protein is sequenced, the amino acid combination that makes up the individual protein is derived. Human insulin for example is composed of two chains, one containing 21 and the other containing 30 amino acids.

    DNA and RNA are organic polymers, not proteins. They carry the template needed to sequence every single one out of all the many different proteins that make up a living organism.

    DNA therefore, is more complex than an individual protein by a large order of magnitude.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Perry

    Aren't you missing the forest for the trees here? Even if you are technically correct?

    This is the sort of comment that keeps us all smiling.

    Science is all about being 'technically correct'. That is why, unlike religionists version of science it can be trusted. When you understand just how scientifically correct Leo is in her post, you will understand a lot more about this subject and why your view of the Book of Genesis is flawed.

    Best regards - HS

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Your thread title was misleading because the discovery had nothing to do with DNA. The discovery concerned collagen, not DNA. Yes, it is an amazing discovery, but the presence of soft tissue does not necessarily imply anything as far as the age of the specimen is concerned, other than it is old enough for near complete mineralization to take place (compare with the lack of mineralization in homo sapiens specimens, which of course are much, much younger). Because of the process of fossilization, the tissue was not in any kind of state where it would decay further in situ. Bonded as it was in mineral form, it was not exposed to the kind of agents that would cause deterioration. Just as a fly in amber is in a kind of stasis. What is not fully understood is how the chemical reaction took place (as this is so far the only instance discovered), tho it is probable that the naturally-occurring iron and apatite (as bones are already 70% mineral) played a key role.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    It turns out that some proteins can survive for very long time periods, far longer than anyone predicted."
    This made me spew my soda I was laughing so hard!

    you have an odd sense of humour perry. tetra

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Aside from Perry's misinformed claim that Schweitzer et al. have 'successfully sequenced DNA in a dinosaur T.rex,' the other big distortion is his claim that the scientists found "flesh and blood encased in the bone", as if they cracked open the bone and found fresh meat "like something I plopped on my grill last weekend". It was over 99% mineralized bone....you would only find rocky grit between your teeth if you tried to taste the bone. The scientists had to remove all the mineral from the sample, essentially destroying it to see if anything would be left. The resultant fragments of tissue had to also be hydrated for a week....they were not soft and pliable to begin with. The photos that Perry posted have been magnified a few times; the actual size of the tissue fragments were mere milimeters across, not quite a steak you'd put on your grill. Neither was there any blood.

  • Perry
    Perry

    This article states that proteins were proven to be sequenced, and soft stretchy tissue including collegen were found in this specimen, not DNA. Notable, the article did not state that they did not find DNA. But "ancient" "million" year old DNA is not unheard of at all and is reported all over the internet from what appears to be reliable sources.

    Michigan State University has this from an article on their website:

    Insects are commonly preserved in amber after being caught in the sticky resin emitted by some trees as a defense mechanism(Morell 46). In 1982, Roberta and George Poinar identified intact cellular components such as nuclei, ribosomes, and chromosomes in insects embedded in amber, but were unable to isolate DNA at that time (Lundberg 22). The first successful DNA extraction was from an extinct termite, Mastotermes electrodominicus, by the team at the American Museum of Natural History headed by David Grimaldi (Grimaldi 59). These termites were found in amber from the Dominican Republic. This species is defined by the large, fan-like lobe at the base of its hind wings and by many wing veins. The perplexity is that these characteristics are also given to cockroaches, which evolved before the mastotermes; thus, evolutionary lines cannot be defined on such simple characteristics and need to have more exclusive traits to the species in order to establish the evolutionary unit. Another concern was the “missing link” between termites and cockroaches: Is the Mastotermes electrodominicus closer related to termites or cockroaches (Grimaldi 60)? Scientists are able to establish such links by doing evolutionary comparison between ancient and modern DNA (Morell 46). Fragments of mitochondrial DNA of Mastotermes electrodominicus were amplified using the polymerase chain reaction and then linked to the modern-day termite Mastotermes darwiensis (Lundberg 22). Ancient DNA has also been extracted from stingless bees being studied by Raul Cano and from a 123 million year old extinct weevil examined by George Poinar (Morell 46). As Grimaldi writes, “While it is a long way from amplifying a bit of DNA to reconstructing a whole dinosaur - or even a termite - these new developments open up many exciting scientific possibilities” (59). ..... Mary Schweitzer, graduate student of paleontologist Jack Horner, extracted DNA found sealed away in the dense marrow of a 65 million year old Tyrannosaurus rex bone.

    And then there is this announcement from Peking University:

    DNA Ioslation and Sequence Analysis of Dinosaur DNA from Cretaceous
    Dinosaur Egg in Xixia Henan, China
    LI Yi, AN Chengcai, ZHU Yuxian, ZHANG Yun, LIU Yifei, QU Lin, YOU Lingtao
    LIANG Xiaowen, LI Xiaohua, QU Lijia, ZHOU Zengquan, CHEN Zhangliang
    (College of Life Sciences, Peking University, Beijing, 100871)


    Abstract:
    DNA was extracted from 70-80 million year old dinosaur egg excavated from Cretaceous belt formation in Xixia Henan, China. The DNA samples from both outer shell and inner floccule contents were used as templates in polymerase chain reactions (PCR) with a specific primer and hexamers. With these two primers a 150 bp DNA fragment has been amplified, cloned and sequenced. Deduced amino acid sequence of this dinosaur DNA has been compared with known protein sequences in EMBL Bank. The results showed that it has significant homology with Xenopus laevis epithelia precuraor- EP-cadherin (40.6%) and brain-cadherin (37.5%), bovine placental cadherin (34.4%) and human placental cadherin (36.4%), respectively.

    I predict that within two years that 65 "million" year old DNA will be proven to have been extracted from dinosaur bones. Meanwhile, I'll continue to grill up my soft stretchy tissue each Saturday instead of going door to door.

    Leoliola, that was a joke. Meaning it was intended to be funny. When I count down and say zero.... you may giggle.

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