OOOh ... I really like this: The congregation elders take the lead in offering help and counsel if someone is walking disorderly. If he does not see the error of his way but continues to be an unwholesome influence, the elders may warn the congregation by means of a talk that makes clear the Biblical view—be it of dating unbelievers, or whatever the improper course is. (1 Corinthians 7:39; 2 Corinthians 6:14) Christians in the congregation who are thus alerted can individually decide to limit any socializing with ones who clearly are pursuing a disorderly course but who are still brothers." I've made sure the elders have nothing to worry about. Made my own decision to limit my socializing with the JW. I've voluntarily removed myself from their "precious" congregation, and wont be "influencing" anyone ... so I'm harmless right? Aint it just great being a member of the "enigmatic class of marked ones"?
What exactly does it mean to be "marked", anyway?
by Amber Rose 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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bigmouth
The piece from the 1999 QFR that bluesbrother posted; 'The congregation elders take the lead in offering help and counsel if someone is walking disorderly. ', would seem to be an adjustment from my understanding of marking in the '80's.
I recall that it was proper for an individual to mark somebody even though no talk had been given.
Can anyone recall this being the case? -
Fangorn
That was the understanding at one time but they decided that people making a decision of their own on something of this kind wasn't really acceptable. It's another 'control' thing.
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jgnat
I might be able to help, as hubby and I are 'marked'. I'm a real degenerate. I won't study to be a JW, I make more money than my husband, and I'm a Sunday School teacher at a local church.
What qualifies a person to be marked?
They weren't bad enough to be DF'd. The elders may instead decide to remove priveledges. Hubby's been reproved for lying to the elders, losing his temper, failing to tell them about our marriage, and pre-marriage fornication. The best advice I heard from one of the elders was for us to promise not to fornicate any more. I laughed when I heard that. We still do 'it' but now it's legal!
How do you know if you are marked or maybe people just don't like you or everyone in your congregation is just unfriendly? Who determines whom shall be marked? How does word get around?
Since no official statement is made, and even the "disorderly one" may be unaware of the arrangement, individual congregation members judge if someone is worthy to associate with or not. They will likely take cues from elders and other members of the congregation.
What are the concequences of being marked?
For a JW it means you can greet the DOG and ignore the owners (This really happened to us)
You don't get invited to social events in the congregation.
The JW's are very rude and are a bad witness to their neighbours. Sometimes their invitations can sound downright weird to outsiders. For instance, hubby and I were invited to a Witness party. When I hesitated, the inviter said, "You are allowed." Hm. Now I REALLY wanted to go. I tried out the phrase with a few of my worldly friends, and they had the same ambivalent response. "You are ALLOWED to go to the party? What is THAT all about?"
Can the marking be lifted?
I'd like to know how. It must take years (Also from personal experience).
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jelcat8224
I got 'marked' once. The talk was SUPPOSED to be directed toward me and ALL my 'friends', and this is what I was told by the elders. So like a good little girl I went and sat at the meeting waiting patiently for the elder to get up and give his 'marking' talk. Funny, as soon as the elder was introduced to take the stage, ALL of my 'friends' got up and left, (except for one who was on a trip to bethel with the step son of one of the elders) leaving ME to be the ONLY 'young person' left sitting in the audience for the entire talk. As you can imagine, EVERY eye was on me, and although most of the talk was directed at the others, the entire congregation assumed I was the rotten apple. Turns out later, these 'friends' had teamed up with the elders and were tring to get me DF'd. (one of the elders broke down and admitted this about a year later)
This story is soooooo much more twisted and devious than I have presented it here in this short post. Remembering that whole period in my life makes me incredibly happy to be on te outside now. Those so-called 'friends' can KEEP their devious ways and their twisted tongues. I now see the entire process for what it is. The whole thing was unjustified and wrong, and only happened cuz I didn't have as much money as the other families. I never fit into the elder/pioneer clique and that's ok with me!
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WTWizard
I believe being marked means that you are not supposed to be taken as a friend, but you are still supposed to take counsel and be hounded into doing ever more. You do not get any of the "fun" (as if there was any: this "fun" has been getting phased out since the mid 1980s). However, you will still be hounded and harassed if you miss the meetings, and you are still supposed to go out in service.
What do you get marked for? Basically for things that are not serious to warrant disfellowshipping. Marrying an "unbeliever", masturbation, watching porn or R-rated movies, listening to rap and heavy metal music, or playing dirty video games are the most obvious offenses that will get you marked. You can get marked for disobeying counsel, also. This means if they see you attempting to meet a sister when they counseled you to just meet other men, you might also get marked for that. Or, if they see your collection of CDs and don't like some of them, they might mark you for failure to throw them away. Excessive materialism, stinting on donations, and not putting in "enough" service are also potential marking offenses. Whether you actually get marked or not depends on the kangaroo courts of the hounders when they have those hounders' meetings, and when the hounder-hounder is cracking down. And some will get away with things for which another will get marked for.
Does a marking expire? Not in the same way a disfellowshipping does. They will not announce you as unmarked. The hope is that gradually you will change your ways (this is another way they control you: they could keep you always one step away from being unmarked). Then they see the change, and you are no longer deemed weak. What all too often happens is that the requirements escalate, and a person will stay marked for life. Or some will never see the person as improving at all.
I, personally, would rather be disfellowshipped than active/marked. Getting disfellowshipped cuts off all association, including those harassing houndings to go to the meetings and out in service. Get marked, and the houndings will continue. And you will still not get good association either way. Better to totally blow them off than be marked so they can keep dangling the unmarking in your face.
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LongHairGal
I am pretty sure I was marked by a certain clique.
I suppose the whole purpose of marking is to make the marked person feel ignored by the persons doing the marking or shunning. The shunners (would be controllers) are hoping or assuming that the shunned person will go up to them and say "....why are you acting this way, etc. or what have I done". Besides, if the marked person is very busy they may never know they are being shunned!!
Well, I had no intention of playing into this bullshit. I am not a charade player and I would never respond to anybody who engaged in such things, which is what I consider marking to be - a stupid charade. I just acted like I was not aware of any shunning. This is nothing more than a pathetic control mechanism that never worked on me. I wonder how many people I frustrated because I never gave them the satisfaction of acknowledging that I even noticed?
LHG
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Rethinking
What I would like to know is: why are "disorderly ones" always regular publishers? Elders, MS and the higher-ups do act disorderly as well; but nothing ever happens to them.
"Marking" is a control issue. If I can't find anything to disfellow(s)hip you for, then I'll make sure that you are marked. It HAS happened. It is a 'do as we say or get out OR we'll make things miserable for you'.
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WTWizard
It is a 'do as we say or get out OR we'll make things miserable for you'.
And they wonder why I'm helping to expose them so that things will be miserable for them. Ultimately I would like to help ruin the Watchtower Society. Then let's see how miserable things will be for them.
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erandir
It all makes sense to me now. We (my wife and I) were brought into the "truth" a few years ago, and so this concept of being marked never really made sense. And, we never really paid attention to it. We used to have a good friend (she and her husband studied with us--i.e., we were counted as their bible studies) who is the daughter of an elder. She would feel the need to let us know about certain ones in the congregation who were not good to be associated with outside of field service and meetings. She warned us about a good many people...some of which later became good friends of ours. We ended up regretting that we paid attention to our "friend's" warning about them.
Recently, we turned the tables on her and told her that we thought she wasn't a very good friend or witness because of all the slandering of other people that she had done over the years. We ended our friendship right then and there after years of putting up with this pattern of slander, gossip, and back-biting.
So, basically, if my understanding of this "marking" is correct, she was actually doing the congregation a favor and behaving as a good witness. She was marking others, passing on information from her father the elder, and protecting her new studies from bad influences.
That is just TWISTED and SICK, in my opinion. Yet another reason I'm glad I am leaving.