now i'm even more confused...

by Missanna 21 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  IsaacJS2

  I believe the answer to your question is no, you don't have to believe in God if you believe in demons. I was in the same situation when I first realized that I was an atheist because of numerous "demon-like" experiences in my family. Then I began to learn about the more scientific explanations for these things, of course, which satisfied me that there was reason to doubt my belief in the supernatural. But note that I was an atheist first, then skeptical about demons second, because of family related experiences such as what you may have had.

  The reality is that you don't know what is causing the phenomenon you believe to be demons. It could be space aliens in invisible suits. It could be time traveling teenagers from the future who snuck back into the past to mess with us who also have some advanced technology. Or maybe they're pan dimensional super beings that exist in numerous realms all at once so they can touch us but we can't get at them. All of these things could possibly do the sort of stuff a person might see as demonic. You would never know the difference. It is, at best, something you can't truly explain. It says nothing about God's existence one way or another.

  Also, note that some religions are atheistic. That is, they don't believe in a supreme being like God, but they still believe in the supernatural. This includes some forms of Bhuddism and Satanism. Atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in God. Most atheists are actually agnostics by the usual way these words are used--atheists who've read about atheism usually disagree with these uses, but that's another story. Technically, when people in the U.S. and other Western countries refer to atheists, they are usually referring to skeptical-secular-atheist types like myself. But these 3 things are certainly consistent with one another, they don't automatically go together. So it sounds like you're an atheist with a belief in the supernatural. There's nothing bizarre about that. Don't let the usual meaning behind these words in normal conversation confuse you.

  IsaacJ
• 

  trevor

  But I've been in this sort of confused uncomfortable state lately about whether i believe in god or not.

  Missanna

  Before you can decide whether you believe in God you have to be clear in your mind what you mean by God.

  How do you visualize him or her at an emotional level?

  What qualities do you assume this deity to have?

  Do you feel threatened or comforted by the idea of such a being existing?

  How much of what you feel is based on imagination, conditioning or other peoples opinion?

  Most importantly how much of what you perceive God to be is based on personally experienced or firm evidence?

  Exploring an unseen concept such as God and defining what you really mean by this word - God - is a must thing to do before you can be distinguish between belief and certainty.

  trev
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  People have believed in multiple spirit forces without one Almighty God.
  People have believed in evil spirit forces.
  People have believed in spirits of the dead.
  Some people believe that demons are just different lifeforms.

  Science fiction often depicts space-time distortions to explain ghosts,
  where other beings or people from a different time are present (or partially
  present).
  Typically, demon actions can be explained as chemically enhanced
  hallucinations, or mind tricks without the enhancements.

  Demons were around long before Christianity assigned them as fallen Angels.
  The Old Testament only had the one Satan without a host of demons. He
  entered into the presence of the one Almighty God in the book of Job.
  It seems that only after exposure to the Greek notion of evil forces, the
  Christians defined demonic forces as fallen angels and put them under
  Satan's control.

  In short- who knows what's out there?
  "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of
  in your philosophy." --From Hamlet
• 

  BFD

  I am pretty much at the same place as you, missanna trying to come to grips with a whole new belief system is not easy. Thanks for starting this topic and thanks to all who have replied, there's some good stuff there.

  My dilema is that if there is no god, than to whom/what do I give thanks? There is so much to be grateful for in this life but if there is no god, then who do I thank for the so many wonderful things all around me?

  BFD
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  i believe in demons because something happend to my sister that was obviously demons messing with her.

  Things happen that are unexplainable. At some point, everyone's going to have them. It may not be in your best interests to base anything important on them.

  When you're investigating something, it's very rare for ALL the evidence to point in the same direction. Even when you come to a conclusion, there will still be some niggling facts that don't support it. The JW's gave us all a black-and-white view of the world; truth/untruth, good/evil, angels/demons, god/satan. But they're wrong, the world doesn't work that way. Everything is shades of gray, there is no such thing as "truth".

  In the end, your beliefs will probably not play that big of a role in your life. Perhaps it's time to step back from beliefs and faith, and just live. Let your brain play all the scenarios thru in your head at its leisure.

  I'm not trying to talk you into atheism, or theism. Rather, I'm suggesting you let it be for the moment. Just as you tend to find your keys after you've given up and started looking for your slippers, so too you're likely to find where you're comfortable spiritually while looking for something else. Or nothing at all.

  Dave
• 

  lavendar

  Hi Missanna,

  Please don't let the WTS (and your being deceived by them) ruin your relationship with God. This organization is not from God and not of God. They are not serving the True God of the Bible.....but only a counterfeit. The True God loves you more than you could ever know. There are a lot of different "views" on this board, but ultimately you'll have to find your own way and make your own decisions.

  Lavendar
• 

  bluebell

  I don't really know what I think - hubby is big atheist and a good debater in putting his thoughts across - as I find it hard to formulate what I think in a sentence let alone debate I try not to think about it instead.
• 

  greendawn

  What is the balance in your arguments? What tells you there is a god and what tells you there isn't? To me the things around us including the human body tell me there has to be a creator God it's just too good and complicated to be the result of blind chance something the evolutionists dispute, to them though living organisms even bacteria are so complicated they did come about by sheer chance.

  But as mentioned above the god of the WTS is not the genuine god but a very distorted image of him and must not be taken seriously he was created so as to be used for intimidating and controlling their followers.
• 

  serotonin_wraith

  greendawn, if the human body is so perfect how do you explain back ache, cancer, loss of hearing, an appendix which may kill you, the blind spot in the eye, loss of hair and teeth and so on?

  And nobody with knowledge of evolution teaches that we came about by blind chance. It's something the creationists made up.
• 

  Euphemism

  I think that OnTheWayOut is spot on. Assuming you do believe in the supernatural, the only reason to think of it in terms of 'God' or 'demons' is because that's what you were taught to believe.

  Maybe there are actually multiple gods, none of whom is all-powerful. Maybe there's actually a whole spirit world out there, and it's not divided into 'good' and 'evil' camps but contains the same range of good, evil, and in-between that our physical world does.

  Some time after we left the Witnesses, my wife took a class on shamanism/paganism offered at a local New Age store. She had experiences that could be interpreted as interaction with spirits, but could equally well be interpreted as interaction with her own subconscious. She came away from the experience pretty agnostic.

  Personally, I'm an atheist; I don't believe in the supernatural at all. But I think the most important thing is just to have an open mind, and not try to fit everything into predefined categories like 'God', 'demons', etc.