Agnostics demand ambiguity!

by Paralipomenon 29 Replies latest jw friends

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  kid-A

  I have always considered "agnosticism" as a form of intellectual nihilism....why? Because the logical endpoint of the "I dont know" philosophy is the necessary admission that you dont really "know" anything with any certainty. It is essentially leaving the door open for the existence of some sky-god, in the complete absence of any evidence for such an entity. Why deny what your empirical sense of logic tells you?

  Why are there no "agnostics" for Santa Clause, or the Tooth Fairy or Leprechauns? There are ALSO socio-cultural constructions with no more or less evidence in support of their existence as there is for a "god" in the sky. Does the agnostic shrug their shoulders and answer "I dont know, maybe?" when asked if the Tooth fairy exists? If not, why not?

  I suspect many agnostics are simply "mid-way" between the final acceptance of a godless universe, but still cling to some emotional "scrap" of belief because of the warm-fuzzy sense of existential comfort the idea of an afterlife gives them.
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  Nowman

  Wow Kid-A....your so smart....

  Nikki
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  nvrgnbk

  I am no agnostic my dear atheist brother Parali.

  I just wish to avoid being dogmatic.

  Once again, I submit that it is a matter of semantics.
• 

  undercover

  The true definition of atheist is often misunderstood.

  A friend of mine is an athiest. When he tells people that he is one, they usually respond with something like, "Oh, you don't believe in God?" to which he replies, "No, I believe there is no God. There's a difference."

  I classify myself as agnostic, because I don't believe in a god, but I don't deny the possiblity that there is something of higher power out there. At this time, there is no real evidence to prove it but I'm open to any new evidence that might be found. Until it is proven however, I'll trust in my own ability to think, reason and make decisions instead of relying on a religion to tell me what any god wants from me.
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  nvrgnbk

  Thanks undercover, kid-A, and Parali.

  I think the bottom line is that we live in reality.

  That unites us. To not discount the infinitessimally remote possibility that there exists a Higher Being in no way weakens one's grasp of reality.

  My allowance of the possibility of said entity does not stem from a psychological "need" to believe. I am contenet to know that things just are. I accept that not everything has a neatly defined "why". Rather, it is based on my experience that for as certain as one may be about a matter, previously hidden or overlooked information may become available and suggest the rightness of a different conclusion.
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  Paralipomenon

  Kid-A:
  
  Have you ever looked into spiritism, demonic possession and stuff?
  
  What makes the needle on a Ouija board float? Why does it take two people to operate?
  
  What about Pentecostals that "speak in tongues"?
  
  Ruling out God is easy. Taa-dah, I'm not longer accountable to your vengeful God!
  
  But that doesn't negate the possibility of a spirit realm.
  
  Alot of it is scams, tricks or mind games. But it doesn't rule out everything.
  
  Theists explain the phenomena as either angels or demons. Most Atheists I know refuse to research the matter and just call it fraud. That is tantamount to a theist refusing to look at science because they have their faith.
  
  Your thoughts on the supernatural?
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  Paralipomenon

  "I suspect many agnostics are simply "mid-way" between the final acceptance of a godless universe, but still cling to some emotional "scrap" of belief because of the warm-fuzzy sense of existential comfort the idea of an afterlife gives them."
  
  Personally, I went from atheist to agnostic. I can't disprove a spirit realm, but I really don't think I'll be part of it when I die. I'm perfectly content to turn to dust when my time is up. I see the pursuit of the meaning of life to be an intellectual challenge. The second you rule out anything because it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas, you have failed to be objective.
  
  Are you looking for evidence to support your belief, or are you looking at the evidence and deciding based on that?
• 

  BizzyBee

  I suspect many agnostics are simply "mid-way" between the final acceptance of a godless universe, but still cling to some emotional "scrap" of belief because of the warm-fuzzy sense of existential comfort the idea of an afterlife gives them.

  Warm-fuzzies are better than the alternative. As Voltaire said, "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him."
• 

  kid-A

  "Your thoughts on the supernatural?"

  Para: A common misconception about atheists is that they are somehow being "closed minded" about accepting supernatural explanations for events.....in reality the opposite is true. I am entirely open to accepting new realities if there is sufficient, satisfactory evidence for such phenomena. All the phenomena you list in your thread, I have not personally witnessed any compelling or convincing evidence for. In fact, I have come across no compelling evidence for "any" supernatural event that I could not just as easily explain using purely physical processes as underlying causes.

  Having said that, if I DID have such an experience, and was irrefutably convinced that such experiences were not explainable by any other rational explanation (i.e. using Okkam's razor) than I would have no other choice then to accept the "supernatural" as "reality".

  I most often find it is the staunch supporters of "supernatural" phenomena that are, in reality, the most closed-minded. I can often offer perfectly rational, workable hypotheses using purely physical mechanisms to explain what a person "perceives" as "supernatural", to no avail; in their mind, there is ONLY one possible explanation: the "spirit" world.....

  Finally, if some "god" creature were suddenly to appear before me, irrefutably demonstrating its physical and/or "ethereal" reality (whatever that means), I would no longer be an "atheist". I would have no other choice but to accept that some "god" does indeed exist. Regardless, I still would not "worship" it, nor would I would adopt a "religious" mindset, even if such a being were in fact to exist. At the moment, there is simply no data whatsoever to support the god position. I remain, quite happily, an atheist.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  it's sort of silly, you know. every agnostic is already an atheist in essence. i mean, do agnostics REALLY believe that it is impossible to know that Zeus doesn't exist, therefore they are going to be agnostic about Zeus? it doesn't make sense to me. why hold out "agnosticism" for the one omni-max uppa case "G" God if most of them already think the idea is absurd (literally)?

  a lack of belief regarding a certain literal "out there somewhere" god isn't such a big deal.

  tetra (of the 'literally atheist, metaphorically theist" class)