by whereami 26 Replies latest jw friends
Let's set this straight, Jehovah's Witnesses have paid clergy, period.
In court cases, the Society demands clerical privilege in relation to elders. This is a demand to be
recongnized as clergy by the court. The Bonham, Texas case also recognized a hierarchy within the
organization. The word "paid" means to be renumerated or compensated , which C.O.s are by
support from the Society, congregation contributions, free auto insurance, free health care and
a leased vehicle.
metatron
Nope, not for a long time. For your reading displeasure:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/117647/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118775/1.ashx (this baby's a 70-pager)
He is a 607 apoogist who caused a stir on this board last summer, most notably for claiming that the city of Tyre, built on the same site as ancient Tyre, which bears the same name as ancient Tyre, is NOT Tyre, as he believes that Tyre was never rebuilt.
I remember this well. Jeff, I would recommend that you go back and find this thread and look over it. It was actually comical.
AlanF and Leolaia were debating him on these points, and some of it was really funny. This was at the time of the war that had broken out between Hezbollah and the Israelies. Tyre was one of the spots that the Israeli miliatary was focussed on; as Hezbollah had a stronghold there. When thirdwitness tried to state that the prophecy about Tyre not being rebuilt actually came true, Leolaia quipped something to the effect of: "So I guess the Israelis are bombing a city that doesn't really exist."
The way that he tried to overcome all of this was actually funny to watch. It was like watching a child attempt to put a puzzle together by forcing a wrong piece into place by pounding down on it with their fist.
Reading your post was like going back in time, honestly, your reasoning is the very reason why any sane person is here. You compare apples to oranges.
It practically gave me a headache to read your ramblings.
purps
So, with a broad brush you paint us as all the same. You say we want to "practice works of the flesh". Don't you find that just a litle unfair? How do you know this?
Both thr NGO affiliation and the two witness rule for raped children are very real. A person can twist them any way they chose to in their own mind, but that does not take away the hypocrisy or the immense amount of suffering by innocent children.
Would Jesus have approved of a religion that allowed this in his day? Did he not say to clean the inside of the cup, along with the outside to be truly clean. Is the Watchtower doing this? Have they really admitted to all their members that they were NGO members for ten years and given a reasonable explanation? Are they guilty of protecting pedophiles with their two witness rule and not disclosing all the names of the ones who do such horrendous things to the authorities?
The dirty little secrets in the organization are soiling the inside of the cup.
Something you don't talk about is the blood issue. How many people have died because of an ever changing policy that makes less sense as time goes by. You talk about conscience. I would have a difficult time forgiving myself if someone I taught this doctrine to ever dies from refusing blood. And don't think it doesn't happen frequently.
You have every liberty to choose to believe whatever you wish, but don't slander everyone on this board because they don't choose to go along with you.
Guess I should have read the whole thread before I posted.
http://www.topix.net/forum/who/jehovahs-witnesses
Notice "thirdwitness" has taking up squatting here
Here's what I think, thirdwitness:
A. There is no spirit realm inhabited by any sort of beings.
B. The Bible is a collection of goatherd's tales and superstitions.
C. Jehovah is a sock puppet who says whatever the GB puppetmasters say he says.
D. JW Elders are ignorant bumpkins. The Watchtower's own public relations department described them as "untrained volunteers."
On to a few of your assertions:
They preach the good news of the Kingdom.What is that? That invisible King Jesus was enthroned in 1914 and hasn't done a damned thing since then? Give me a break! Are all the false dates part of the "good news" too? When will this good news" happen? Any minute now for the past 130 years.
They make known Jehovah's name.This is a non-issue of no importance whatsoever. How would God be injured if His name was not known? Why is it important to make known a name that was invented by a Catholic Priest in the Middle Ages? Why doesn't the WTB&TS determine the TRUE name of God, and publicize THAT? Because it isn't important, that's why.
They have unity and love and do not kill each other in war.This is conditionally true: AS LONG AS a person accepts the authority of the Governing Body of the WTB&TS, they are not hated and only abused and molested, not killed. Anyone who leaves the "Loving Organization" is subject to character assassination, and the WTB&TS has expressed longing for the times of old when defectors could actually be killed. They encourage ritual suicide by rejecting blood transfusions. They practice idolatry; the worship of blood.
They do not have paid clergymen.
OH, REALLY? Tell me how Ted Jaracz and the other members of the Governing Body, and the Zone/District/Circuit Servants and the Special Pioneers support themselves? I'd like to have Ted J. wash my car.
They remove unclean practicers of the works of the flesh.
They make known Jehovah's name.
And what good has that done? If anything, they give him a bad name.
W
Whereami:
I see that you are a sincere JW. I read your long post that is a defense of the religion. There are a few things that I do not agree with and some are wrong. I can't address all of them except the ones that bother me the most. I am not going to get into the NGO thing because that doesn't interest me as much as other things.
For one thing, they do have something similar to a paid clergy class whether you admit this or not. As a matter of fact, they are morphing every day into a paid clergy class. The only thing that distinguishes them from christendom is that they do not wear vestments. I left catholicism because I was turned off by their clergy class. The JWs boasted they had none. Well, take a good look because they DO in fact have one and I have NO intention of supporting anybody who does not care to work. In certain congregations there are shameless pioneer couples who would absolutely love to be supported like a protestant minister and wife. Not on my dime.
As far as people practicing works of the flesh who leave the religion, yes, there are many but that doesn't mean the org. is right because these people are doing these things. Unfortunately, some people throw out the baby with the bathwater. I also feel that you DO in fact blindly follow the organization. How could you not follow it and still remain an "approved" JW? My problem is that even if I believed most of the teachings I would absolutely have to stay on the fringes and not bother with anybody there. But, this is a moot point now. I also feel that most of the wrong things that happen there are because of FAULTY teachings and not just "imperfection". Maybe we should just let several hundred years pass without doing anything and "hope" for divine intervention, right? Then it would be another babylon the great with sins massing clear up to the heavens. Just give them time and this will happen.
Also, you talk about an organization of imperfect men. The problem I have is that the "organization" keeps changing and morphing as time goes on. I have a problem with them because they claim to speak for god - with no proof to back it up other than the presumptuous claim that they said so. You talk about humility, etc. I have a real problem with JWs elevating themselves yet higher and higher every time you turn around and read somthing new. How in the world are you to say that I should give "honor" to any person or persons without proof of anything. This is an insult to any thinking person's intelligence.
LHG
