OK, so let's test the Creationism advocates out here.............

5go

I responce to this post

I'll start it off, then someone else give them a different challenge if you can think of any.
Please give definitive examples that by evolution, a species has changed into something else. Give two separate findings by scientists, and it can't include any comments like "so we believe", "so we conclude that", or "the evidence shows that there could have been".....the WTS has those copyrighted.
Try and give un-doctored photographic proof, where possible, etc. By the way the hominid skulls and the like will not be accepted, transition has never been proven, I don't think, just that they are different, and scientists "believe", they are pre-homo-sapiens.
I'm not saying you won't have examples, we just want you to walk the talk. Support your claims. You're so sure of the science and evolution. Now bring it.

I will ask the same of you to prove your side.

I shall need one picture of god, jesus, and the devil holding hands. Preferably pre eden I know they haven't gotten along sence then. Also nonhersay evidence to the existence of Jesus Christ and the flood. Also the fossil evidence of a mass extiction event around said time of said flood. And seeing as you love to force people to try to prove something doesn't exist try to prove evolution doesn't exist.

cognizant dissident

I suspect your thread will die a quick death with no takers. Not because it is not a great question. But because the "proof" that you request does not exist, on either side. We have two opposing theories, evidence on both sides, empirical and testimonial, the validity of which is highly and hotly debated. But what neither side has is "absolute, unequivocal, proof". As it stands, right now, nobody "knows" for sure. The atheists "think" they "know" and the creationists "believe" they "know". This is actually the same phenomenon, they just don't "know" it yet. I think maybe JNAT gets it. And James Thomas.

Cog (An atheist who is hedging my bets and being nice to the creationists, on the infinitisemal chance I'm wrong. After all, it has happened before, I used to be a JW! Just in case, I'm hoping JNAT will put in a good word for me on the other side )

Qcmbr

What type of christian are you wanting to respond to this:)

If you want the devil/God and Jesus holding hands that would disprove the majority of christians who believe that Jesus and God are the same being while Satan is a snake and doesn't have hands.

Would you settle for a picture of God kicking a snake in the head?

That would also alienate most* christians since God is not in a body since God is everywhere and nowhere.

Would you settle for a picture of anywhere (prefereably with a snake?)

Now since the devil is a devious git its unlikely he'd happen to be in any snake during photographic activities and if the movie The Exorcist$ is anything to go by then it seems the devil is not confined to a snake. Since he's not described in 'his' out out of snake apparel we must assume that the Devil can likewise be anywhere and nowhere (OK that's stretching the logic)but we could increase the likelehood of 'his' presence as follows: you could take a picture of some empty space containing let's say a naughty magazine being read by someone (let's make it a JW elder for sheer naughtiness) and say with statistical certainty (for most* christians) that God was in that picture (he's everywhere) and that the Devil must be in the picture (causing the elder to be tempted.)

*not sure on the statistics but I think most christians don't believe God is embodied.
$it's not, its made up

Someone else can do the flood.

5go

The atheists "think" they "know" and the creationists "believe" they "know".

I would love to show the debate where I sided with the creationist it was bloody. Trust me the evidence is with the evolutionist.

Atheism aside

God could be using evolution. I don't think so hence I am an atheist but if I were to believe in a deity again. I would still know evolution is how he did it.

5go

If you want the devil/God and Jesus holding hands that would disprove the majority of christians who believe that Jesus and God are the same being while Satan is a snake and doesn't have hands.

That is why I asked for a pre eden one remember your judeo christian mythology.

Satan was in good with god before then.

Qcmbr

There is no mention of the pre-eden Devil in Genesis

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

However Isaiah does give a tasy hint

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Assuming Lucifer is Satan and no-one has yet proven that link. Also several different beliefs have the above event happening in the future / 1914 / Eden depending on their Revelation interpretation.

Anyway since I'm off to work I must apologise for the insinuation that a JW elder could be caught reading naughtiness, all I can plead is the devil made me do it.

Dang where's my camera.

cognizant dissident

I agree with you 5go.

I also agree that the abundance of empirical evidence is with the evolutionists. And I have read very, very little of it. The beauty of the sceintific method is that it allows for old theories to be discarded when new evidence proves them wrong. However, the purity of this process can still be circumvented somewhat by human arrogance and ego. I see no evidence that the "first cause" of evolutionary processes is "God". But I can also accept that at this point in scientific theory "first cause" is unprovable by the strictest sense of this term "proof" that you have laid out. That does not mean there are not many plausible theories out there and evidence to support them. Hopefully, in time, as yet unknown mysteries will continue to be revealed through the method of scientific inquiry. Until then, I think we need more awe and less arrogance, on both sides.

Cog