Unbaptized minor children of JWs are *NOT* JWs, right?

by Scully 12 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • Scully
    Scully

    The recent news articles about JWs giving birth to premature twins in Quebec last week and premature sextuplets in BC back in January 2007, it occurred to me that these children ARE NOT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. The PARENTS ARE.

    The parents, as JWs, do not believe in infant baptism such as practiced by the Catholic Church or any other church. There are no naming ceremonies as is commonplace in Jewish tradition that welcome a newborn into the culture and into the spiritual family. The WTS makes it quite clear that children cannot become members, they can only accompany their JW parents as they practice their beliefs and carry out the form of worship of their own choosing. See also: http://www.ajwrb.org/bulgaria/report.shtml

    The book Family Care and Medical Management for Jehovah's Witnesses also makes a very interesting distinction in the Ethics/Legal section (p 3 of that section) which features the following text as its header, in large bold lettering:

    WHEN PHYSICIANS APPEAL TO SOCIAL SERVICES AND JUDGES FOR ORDERS TO TRANSFUSE CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

    That's right: the WTS, by this wording, reveals that it does not consider unbaptized minor "children of Jehovah's Witnesses" to actually be Jehovah's Witnesses. So why on earth shouldn't these children have the RIGHT to grow up and make up their own minds as to whether they want to be Jehovah's Witnesses, rather than have a belief system imposed upon them when they cannot even speak or formulate an opinion on the matter one way or the other?

    This is actually quite an interesting semantic fluke that the WTS has made here. This wording, oddly enough, is in harmony with the atheist convictions of Richard Dawkins, who wrote in The God Delusion:

    I do not deny that humanity's powerful tendencies towards in-group loyalties and out-group hostilities would exist even in the absence of religion. Fans of rival football teams are an example of the phenomenon writ small. Even football supporters sometimes divide along religious lines, as in the case of Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic. Languages (as in Belgium), races and tribes (especially in Africa) can be important divisive tokens. But religion amplifies and exacerbates the damage in at least three ways:

    • Labelling of children. Children are described as 'Catholic children' or 'Protestant children' etc. from an early age, and certainly far too early for them to have made up their own minds on what they think about religion (I return to this abuse of childhood in Chapter 9).

    ~ The God Delusion, pages 260 and 261

    He further writes:

    Our society, including the non-religious sector, has accepted the preposterous idea that it is normal and right to indoctrinate tiny children in the religion of their parents, and to slap religious labels on them - 'Catholic child', 'Protestant child', 'Jewish child', 'Muslim child', etc. -- although no other comparable labels: no conservative children, no liberal children, no Republican children, no Democrat children. Please, please raise your consciousness about this, and raise the roof whenever you hear it happening. A child is not a Christian child, not a Muslim child, but a child of Christian parents or a child of Muslim parents. The latter nomenclature, by the way, would be an excellent piece of consciousness-raising for the children themselves. A child who is told she is a 'child of Muslim parents' will immediately realize that religion is something for her to choose - or reject - when she becomes old enough to do so.

    ~ The God Delusion, pages 339 and 340

  • carla
    carla

    Excellent point!! My jw uses that everytime I bring up a pedophile case, 'are you sure they were jw's?' 'are they baptized and in good standing?' Then I remind him that to the rest of the world they don't give a rats ass if they are baptized or in good standing, if they go to a kh on a regular basis they ARE a jw. (speaking about adults free to choose if they go or not)

  • Scully
    Scully

    I guess what I'd like to see as a result of this is an argument brought before the court to the effect that the WTS does not recognize these children as JWs, therefore they should not have medical treatments (or refusal of medical treatments) imposed upon them as though they were JWs.

    Remember, these are the WTS's own words, from one of their own publications which has a target audience of judges, lawyers, physiciansand hospital adminstrators. These children are "children of Jehovah's Witnesses", not "Jehovah's Witnesses", not "Jehovah's Witness children", according to their own published documents. These children do not have parents advocating on behalf of their LIVES. They have parents who are advocating to advance their own religious beliefs and impose them on these children.

    It is up to judges, lawyers, physicians, nurses, social workers and hospital administrators to put the children's lives FIRST, which is what the parents ought to be doing in the first place.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Greetings, Scully!

    Regarding our past discussion on 'children are not members,' my simple question is the following: Was the Society's above declaration about children of Bulgarian JW parents a matter of expediency and religious compromise, intended only as a means to curry favor with the Bulgarian government? And that question leading into what I feel should be logically asked next: This cannot possibly apply in western countries where it is so clear that mature-minor witnesses [baptised frequently before puberty] actually ARE viewed as bona fide members, free to make medical decisions on their own behalf?
    Is this just another example of the Society talking on both sides of the mouth? I need a refresher course on this matter! I'm sorry for not connecting all the dots on my own.........................

    Many thanks!

    CoCo

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Dear Scully,

    I reread your posts and got the answer to my question. I should have read more carefully the first time. Sorry for the bother!

    Have a happy holiday,

    CoCo

  • Scully
    Scully

    Hello CoCo!

    No worries.... I certainly understand the dilemma that arises when a young child (as young as 5 or 6 years of age) submits to baptism and "becomes" one of Jehovah's Witnesses. However, I suggest that this practice of allowing young children to be baptized as JWs be stopped in its entirety. Certainly these kids cannot legally enter a contract, they cannot legally join the military, get married, drive a car, open a bank account, get a job, etc, etc. The government recognizes that it would be entirely inappropriate to allow those things. What they don't yet comprehend is that once someone is baptized as a JW - even if they are a minor child without the proper understanding of everything that is entailed in so doing - they cannot simply undo it without severe repercussions. This is where the baptism of minors is extremely dangerous.

    Just my

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    An unbaptized person is not at risk of eternal death for accepting a blood transfusion. How can they obey a command if they have not sworn alleigance to the commander? Besides, children are not of the age of reason and are protected by their parent's faith until they are.

    Besides, as you point out Scully, they may choose an entirely different system of beliefs as an adult.

    Justice requires that children be given every chance to make that choice for themselves....when they are adults.

  • Manjana
    Manjana

    This is exactly what I have been "screaming" about in a danish web-page. The childreen who died, because of their JW-parents dicission, not to give them blood, did'nt never get the chance to choose for them selfes. Maybe they wanted to be an atteist or catholic or something else, when they grew up.

    It's so unfair, that they never got that choice.

    There are nothing good at all, being a child of JW. Sitting still for hours at the Kingdom hall, be different at school, no hollidays celebrating, and so can we go on.

    Lets get that tower closed.

    I get so angry, when I think of this. When I was a litle girl, I suffered a lot, because I could not go to birthdays partys. So much that I stole money from my mother, so I could give a present, and lied to both my parents so I could go there and celebrate the party. I told them that we only were going to play.

    Many childreen suffers in the same way. No joy. I remember that there was a time, where you could celebrate you baptism, and recieve presents, but that was also forbidden. Because you must not feel proud of you self, only humaliation. Like a litle grey mouse.

    And I think, that celebrating a birthday only is a tribute to God, because he is the reason that you were born. When you celebrate birthday, you show God how gratefull you are for live. And I as a mother, shows how gratefull I am for my childreen.

    JW has closed every dor to joy and happyness, for the childreen, the youth, and the grown ups.

    Lets all do what we can, to open those dors again.

    Manjana

  • Stealth453
    Stealth453

    They are when it suits the watchliar's press machine.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    This is part of the argument as well as other issues that are brought before the Court by the Crown.

    The key is the minor is not old or mature enough to make their own INFORMED decision and thus, the State of Province need to step in from time to time to protect the child or minor.

    I urge you to read the Supreme's decision on this subject some years ago.

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