"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"

FireNBandits

Jimmy Swaggert (a "swaggert" is a swaggering braggart BTW), Jim and Tammy Fakker, or any well-known Christian that "blows it" big-time in a public way is sure to elicit that response from the fundagelicals around you. "But he wasn't a REAL Christian!" What a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact! It's as if Ford Motors were to say, "Ford automobiles never break down." Then, when they're confronted by Fords that broke down, they exclaim, "But it wasn't a REAL Ford because REAL Fords don't break down!"

If we follow this convoluted reasoning to it's logical conclusion then NO ONE is a "real" Christian because ALL Christians perfrom misdeeds both great and small!

Clearly, this line of reasoning is simply a PR tactic, a "spin" worthy of the GB, to save the public face of Christianity. If true, then Peter was not a REAL Christian because he denied Christ! THREE TIMES! Clearly, the Mighty Peter struck out!

Christians latch onto this argument only when the "sinner" is someone famous and/or influential. If they find out that Baptist brother Bob Cowlick--who always sings off key--made some whoopee with Ms. Glick the piano player, well shucks: "They jus' 'pentent sinners and heckfire, they dun 'pented an' it's "under the blood." But if Public Christian Number One does it, then "He wasn't a REAL Christian!" Again, this is to distance Christianity--and hence Jesus--from bad PR. Can you say WATCHTOWER?

Again, as I've stated before, I'm always amazed that fundagelicals can read the hearts of others and know whether or not someone is a "real" Christian. If someone tells me they believe Jesus died for their sins, etc, they're a Christian. If they believe there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet, they're a Muslim. Etc. "Oh, but Public Christian Glick does not believe in Fundy Dogma B! Glick believes in Fundy Dogma A! Clearly he has fallen into error because Bible Verse W says so!"

Gotta go vomit now. -Martin

Satanus

Another fire arrow sticks the bull's eye. In islam, there are 'real muslims' and 'not real muslims' as well.

S

onlycurious

Is it really safe to state this as a blanketing statement? I certainly don't refer to people as "real' Christians. Either they are believers or they aren't. We ALL make mistakes. I'd be the first to admit I'm not perfect. Geez, have you read some of my posts? I have loads of things I struggle with. Oh, and I'm a 'real' Christian....

While there are those out there who would like to make us think they are perfect little Christians and are able to determine who is and who isn't a 'real' Christian, please be more careful to not heap all of us in one of your piles.

LtCmd.Lore

Yeah, I've heard that before... just recently acctually. Somebody told me that if I believed in Jesus, then I would FEEL that he exists. I then informed him that I was a Christian for 16 years, and I got the old: "Well you weren't a REAL christian."

I could have gave examples of other ex-Christians that didn't get any special feeling, but they wouldn't have been 'real christians' either.

(Interestingly, that evidence acctually equates to: "If you believe in Jesus with your heart, he will make you feel in your heart that he exists...")

Lore

FireNBandits

Hi Onlycurious. I think maybe I was unclear. I accept as a "real Christian" anyone who professes to be one. I don't have criteria to jdge someone who says they are a Christian beyond their profession of faith. I was discussing my experience over the years of having conservative Christians tell me this person or that person "Isn't a real Christian" because of some misdeed by a public person. I always believed the person performing the misdeed was indeed a real Christian since all Christians perform misdeeds large and small. I concluded that saying "He wasn't a eal Christian" was simply a way to distance Christianity from any bad PR.

In other words, I'm not the one saying "They're not a real Christian."

Martin

FireNBandits

Lt.Cmdr.Lore. Great screen name. Too bad Lore never took Data's place by passing himself off as Data. It would have made for a riveting plot twist to the Next Gen. (There's a pun there with the word "rivet" although Data and Lore were far advanced beyond rivets) I met Brent Spiner shortly after his character Data was given emotions, and I told him the character had been ruined for me. "The tin man found his heart. End of story."

I felt all sorts of grand feelings as an evangelical and became quite addicted to them. I would put myself through the most grotesque spiritual catharsis several times a week, writhing on the floor, confessing my sins right down to failing to signal a left turn, in order to re-create the feelings I had as a new Christian. I finally snapped out of it, realized that it was some sort of nearly psychotic behavior, plus an addiction, and stopped. A lot of people my age becamse Christians during the Jesus Movement of the late sixties and early seventies because it was a powerful high that was "real." Alas, it too faded and had to be forced to occur again and again via boisterous singing and clapping, dancing in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, going up to the altar to confess sins, all kinds of activities designed to recreate the conversion experience. It was fairly crazy. Understatement. I remember a moment of clarity, when a large fat woman began to vigorously jump up and down, red faced, and screaming "JESUS DELIVER ME FROM THE DEMON OF CHOCOLATE!" It was a very important moment for me. ("She's daft Maritn and you're daft for being here with these daft people.")

FireNBandits

Thanks Satanus. Those cat eyes are very freaky cool. -Martin

Anti-Christ

I am a real Antichrist!!!

choosing life

Your analogy isn't so good. You're comparing apples to oranges, as they say.

In this case it is humans to trucks. In your analogy, you blame the maker when the truck breaks down. When the human breaks down, you blame the human, rather than the maker. Just doesn't work.

Humans and trucks are infinately differant, as I am sure you know. One is alive and makes decisions daily. We are all bound to make some really bad ones. Believing in God doesn't stop that from happening. If it did, then all the perfect Christians would be extremely obvious around the still imperfect unbelievers.

I have never understood how anyone could follow some of the TV evangelists. They seem obviously fake. But that's my decision. Everyone else is entitled to their decision.

FireNBandits

Hi Anti-Christ. If you're the Anti-Christ then actually you're the REAL Christ because the Anti-Christ realizes that the "real" Christ is a phoney! The Anti-Christ tells everyone "YOU YOURSELVES are the Christ! You all have Christ Nature!" What is Christ Nature? Ask the Anti-Christ. Oops. I mean, ask yourself.

"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"

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