KNOCKING Thread 3,223?

by blondie 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  blondie

  I taped this last night on PBS.

  I'll just mention my impressions as a jotted down notes as I watched.

  Scene 1:

  First we see a young man playing an electric guitar in his bedroom as the camera zooms in on a Van Halen CD.

  Is this a JW's bedroom?

  Scene 2:

  Father and son going d2d talk to an obviously Christian Chinese family.

  Not once did I see either JW father or son open their Bible to discuss whether Jesus is God. It was very obvious that these JWs had no real Bible understanding to share with their neighbors.

  Scene 3:

  We see non-JW grandmother of young man (his mother's mother) who calls it a cult or at least cultlike. Can we guess how much closeness she is allowed with her JW family?

  Parents became JWs when son, Seth, was 6 (has a brother and sister too)

  The offending point is the holidays...I know from experience that even if you see your non-JW relatives 350 days a year but miss BDs and Xmas that you will still upset them.

  Scene 4:

  Non-JW grandmother..."must be part of the niche to belong"

  Scene 5:

  Comment at meeting...study same WT...or is it more important to study the Bible?

  "not earn, want to" "magazine explains" (Bible explains?)

  Engardio: little room for individual freedom

  Seth--liver transplant without blood...not even own stored blood

  But can use hemoglobin-based products with WTS blessing although made out of stored blood.

  Scene 6:

  Seth playing hockey--with whom, other JWs, violent game?, wasting time could be spent in d2d

  Engardio: cannot speak out against major beliefs (are there any minor JW beliefs you can speak out against?)

  30,000 DF, how many DA'd?

  No mention that if a JW takes a blood transfusion he is saying he does not want to be a JW and is considered DA'd. Every JW gets one chance to take blood and repent though.

  Scene 7:

  History: JWs founded in 1879...rather it was Bible Students

  CTR: Against hellfire and collection plate, btw, CTR was never a JW

  1930's in Germany....Engardio left out the infamous 1934 letters from Rutherford to the Nazis with their opinion of the "commercial" Jews.

  Bible Students/JWs refused to accept authority of the state--because since 1929 they had been told that the superior authorities were Jesus and God, but in 1962 the WTS changed that back to the secular authorities and said that their doctrinal mistake proved to be a blessing.

  Did JFR speak out against the persecution of the Jews...proof?

  Scene 8:

  Kempler, Jew during Holocaust, became JW later. Doubts about God thinking God had allowed Holocaust.

  He has 2 sons, d2d every Saturday...hear son talking about 17 tracts they use, most important "Learn about the Bible"

  Scene 9:

  Kempler's first wife died after war; gave up daughter to his sister to raise as a Jew. Didn't see very much of them. Speaks at school about Holocaust, but deemphasizes the part that he was a Jew then not a JW.

  Son-in-law (husband of Jewish daughter) says JWs indoctrinate others

  Daughter says Jews gave her father hope in a hopeless time...typical tactic of JWs to catch you when you are down

  See Sound Cars...aggressive proselytism

  Brumley--WTS PR rep--aggressively tell

  Engardio--pledge ruled by Supreme Ct in 1940 must be said; persecution; but 200 US newspapers condemned that ruling; reversed in 1945 by Supreme Ct (notice the war timeline)

  Signs: Religion is a snare and a racket (at a time the WTS did not consider itself a religion)

  JW litigation more than voting regards religious freedom

  Scene 10:

  Seth jamming in the garage

  Black girlfriend (do JWs have "girlfriends"?)

  Dr Jason Eding--transplant--Baylor and Univ Tx Houston will not do

  Jason's mother: He could take blood and we would still love him

  Grandmother non-JW--not a choice, told this is the way it is

  Help from headquarters to find hospital (USC) (HLC?)

  Dr Arthur Caplan--father had to be organ donor because organ system will not waste an organ on experimental surgery.

  Doctors tell father and son risks.

  USC performing for opportunity to experiment on limiting blood loss, HIV is not the issue re JWs or it shouldn't be

  Seth has on an Atari shirt

  non-JW grandmother: "If she wants me, I will be there" regarding her daughter.

  Taped the prayer but left out any "Jesus" reference; grandmother doesn't seem to be part of prayer

  Sister: Resurrection hope in paradise

  Blood circulating...leaving circuit?..not blood transfusion...continuous? When is it stored blood; when was it stored blood in Bible times?

  Grandfather and healthy family, non-JWs visit concentration camps. Remember grandfather was not a JW in the camps.

  Rabbi Michael Berenbaum--sign paper and get out (My question: if you were a Jew and became a JW could you sign the paper?)

  non-jw grandmother---science has come a long ways

  Rabbi again: will uncompromising religions destroy or embrace the other

  The JWs pray that God will destroy all non-JWs and soon.
• 

  candidlynuts

  good comments

  i saw it last week, i raised my eyebrows at the hockey scene too.

  i'd love to have the grandma posting on the board here. she could use some comfort and her comments on the filming would be welcome.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Cool thread Blondie..Thanks..I have`nt seen the documentory..From what you mention,it does not seem that realistic...OUTLAW
• 

  Junction-Guy

  Yeah that "girlfriend" thing really irked me as we were taught that casual dating wasnt allowed, only when you are enaged. So if they are engaged, why didnt they just say that in the film?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I do wonder.
  Is it possible that a relatively normal JW family was chosen (normal in the sense that JW's
  would consider them weak for allowing rock guitar music and hockey) to make JW's
  seem normal? Maybe this is another "mainstreaming" attempt. I think the normalization
  angle was Joel's approach to the WTS for cooperation.

  Is it possible that Joel insisted that the preaching not be done any better than normal?
  I mean, you know you will be on camera. Why not share an uncontroversial scripture
  direct from the Bible? Maybe he rejected that, and chose the tract work and quick
  discussions. In person, the group I was in asked Joel about the preaching segments and
  he said "It took hours upon hours to try to get some favorvable responses from people."
  That let me know that he had hours upon hours of film to choose his segments from.

  Joel said they chose the liver transplant because they wanted a procedure that was still
  dangerous and less routine. They chose the converted Jew because his was the only name
  that showed up on both Jewish and JW lists of those in concentration camps.
• 

  blondie

  So they picked and chose what preaching segments and this was the best they could find?

  I have been away from the WTS for 5 years and have not gone d2d for 10 years before that and could think of 2 scriptures that I could have shared. Did they have a Reasoning book handy. If you are going d2d for 17 years, as Seth had at that time and his father had as an adult for that amount of time, I was amazed at their response.

  The JWs I know, knew, still know, would be counseled for having a Van Halen CD and the ones I knew who played hockey were counseled and had their play cancelled or lost their "privileges."

  I am a little suspect of a man who doees not realize that there were no JWs until 1931. There are plenty of JWs connected with the Holocaust Museum and could have been contacted through the WTS if they were truly cooperating with Joel.

  Blondie (not impressed, impressed more by the Mormon documentary done recently)
• 

  Junction-Guy

  Well Atari itself isnt forbidden, neither is wearing Tshirts. However the natural response for any JW when given an opportunity to give a witness is to dress up for the occasion. Anytime you were representing" Jehovah's organization" you were to be dressed up a little bit. If my Dad (an Elder) knew that TV cameras were going to film us, then the ball cap would have to go. So yes, I do believe they were trying to portray an image of Jehovah's Witnesses that we know isnt correct. Theocratic Warfare Strategy.
• 

  HadEnuf

  Yuk, yuk, yuk and yuk,yuk. I watched last night and could just feel my blood pressure rising steadily throughout the show. A very fine piece of propaganda and glosses over so many REAL facts about JW's. If you go to the "Talk Back" section on the "Knocking" website...you can already see the X-JW's comments being tossed aside by JW's who say that those people who leave "anti-JW" messages were just disgruntled or sinful and df'd. These people are completely delusional...as I was at one time. Nice summary of the documentary Blondie! I challenge those two who made it to do one on the "other" side of the little JW bubble. mumsy p.s. What is the difference between Hitler killing off millions of Jews and the JW's looking forward with eager anticipation to Armageddon, where billions of people will be destroyed, except the JW's don't have to do the dirty work..."Jehovah" will do that for them. Go figure.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  So they picked and chose what preaching segments and this was the best they could find?

  According to Joel, YES. But we aren't the creative minds. We don't know for sure what
  Joel's goal was. If it was to make JW's look like they offered a message and then left you
  alone, it was fairly close. Maybe this actually was the best footage they had to offer. Maybe
  they coached the JW's not to be too intrusive, argumentative.

  The good news is that this preaching will look bizarre to a non-JW watching this. It won't have
  any real change in attitudes toward people at the doors. Now, a householder who saw this can
  say "I saw that documentary." Maybe Joel was just wanting householders to think of the film
  instead of doctrine when the JW's come knocking. If he wanted to help the JW's, he chose
  poorly.

  Junction Guy makes excellent points. You know your family is on TV but they wear hats and
  worldly t-shirts. That had to be coached. I remember seeing a documentary on the lady who
  made Rolling Stone magazine famous with her photos. She got the musicians used to her by
  hanging around for days or weeks. Eventually, they were themselves as she shot photos. They
  let their guard down. Perhaps, that's a standard technique now. Then you convince the subjects
  that this more normal stuff would be better than the "best behaviour and dress" stuff.
• 

  Junction-Guy

  What I would really love to know is Joel's real agenda in making this documentary? I have a few thoughts, but Im gonna keep silent, out of respect for a few posters here.
  
  
  Joel seems to be trying to portray the JW's as normal, next door types. When people see this they will just see people like their neighbors. This is what he was aiming for I believe.
  
  Think about it, they show a young man playing sports,dating, enjoys video games, promotes his favorite team on his ballcap. He is trying to make them look "all american" "all apple pie"
  
  What he doesnt show you is guys like me who were forbidden to date, and made to feel guilty for wanting a girlfriend. Guys who were forbidden to play on school sports teams.