Regarding Psychic Phenomena.

by Blueblades 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    The Wanderer:

    I do not know the sources that you are referring to
    regarding this matter. However, if it is true that
    it is all "flawed research", I would like to know
    the nature of the source and what evidence and
    research that was done to reach such a conclussion.

    I could show enough evidence regarding this matter
    however, with the reply's on this topic I seriously
    doubt that it would be taken into consideration.

    However, just to make things clear, this subject is
    a science regardless of said opinions.

    With all due respect, you seem to believe that the mere existence of societies whose members believe - or even investigate - paranormal claims should be taken as evidence for those claims. In reality, you don't have any credible evidence for any of those claims or you would present it. It is not up to those who don't believe you to provide evidence that your claims are unsubstantiated - it is up to you to substantiate them, and merely pointing out the existence of a few eccentric little clubs is not doing so.

    You have behaved similarly in several threads on this subject and then squawked indignantly when your disingenuity was exposed. If you have evidence to present for your claims, then do so, but acting as if your evidence is too precious to show to those who would question it isn't fooling anybody.

    Put up or shut up!

  • The wanderer
    The wanderer

    Dear Mr. Alan F:

    I provided neutral, unbiased and creditable
    sources. However, in looking up your sources
    you gave me a former magician and skeptic.

    I would like to end this discussion because
    if science institutions are not respected
    then I will not respect a parlor magician.

    Respectfully,

    The Wanderer

    Dennis Rawlins claims the challenge is insincere, and that Randi will ensure he never has to pay out.
    In the October 1981 issue of Fate, Rawlins quoted him as saying "I always have an out".

  • metatron
    metatron

    Once I had a relative who thought himself an artist. I told him that my definition of art was anything

    called "art" that a complete stranger would buy. Otherwise, it's not art ( to me !).

    Can you use ESP/psychic ability/intuition to make money? or other objective benefits? Otherwise,

    it's just empty theorizing.

    As it happens, intuition can make money or generate other objective benefits.

    metatron

  • Warlock
    Warlock

    Perhaps Mr. Randi is one of those, whose mere presence does not allow for, or blocks, any type of psychic activity.

    Perhaps Mr. Randi knows this, hence he knows he will never have to pay.

    Warlock

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    "I provided neutral, unbiased and creditable
    sources. However, in looking up your sources
    you gave me a former magician and skeptic."

    Wanderer: What you did (YET AGAIN) was post some links to some parapsychology interest societies. A neutral, unbiased and credible "source" would be a scientific journal citation. It would look something like this: Jones, R.F. et al. Journal of Physiology, Volume 21; pp 187-198; 2004. So far so good? Now, the reason "parapsychological" research is NOT published in reputable scientific journals is because NOBODY has ever been able to "replicate" a single one of these experiments. Let me explain how scientific information is created and published. First, a laboratory (funded by competititive grants) performs a series of experiments. They prepare a manuscript. They submit the manuscript to a peer-reviewed journal. The editor sends out the manuscript to independent colleagues to provide an anonymous review. The manuscript is either accepted, sent back for revision or outright rejected by the editors based upon this peer review. Not a single source you have provided meets this criteria, yet you continue to engage in the promotion of what you classify as "unbiased research".

    "I would like to end this discussion because
    if science institutions are not respected
    then I will not respect a parlor magician."

    ....sigh.......Again. These ARE NOT "science" institutions. They are special interest "societies" with an interest in the paranormal. A "Science" institution in your country would be "The National Institutes of Health" (NIH) or "The National Academy of Science" which publishes PNAS. I will repeat this AGAIN for you: There are NO peer-reviewed scientific research societies or granting agencies that are funding this sort of research. Do you understand?

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Wanderer, your replies nicely illustrate that facts are unable to penetrate the mind of the True Believer.

    AlanF

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    The wanderer

    I could show enough evidence regarding this matter
    however, with the reply's on this topic I seriously
    doubtconsideration. that it would be taken into

    And this is why the paranormal belietiving community are ridiculed by mainstream science. Rather than present evidence, they make excuses why they cannot prove their beliefs.

    The Borg blame apostates for not believing in their rubbish, and then negate the existence of such nay-sayers by making the fact apostates are dubious about the Borg's claims as a reason for not even engaging in a dialog with apostates.

    You seem to still follow the same toxic thinking pattern.

    I provided neutral, unbiased and creditable
    sources.

    But you have not proved the existence of paranormal phenomena outside the minds of those that claim such phenomena exists. And it is YOUR problem you are unable to prove YOUR beliefs. Present facts, or take responsibility for not being able to prove your beliefs rather than this childish whining.

    Warlock

    I would invite Abaddon and Alan F. to my haunted office, but it seems like the spirit(s) have left, with the death of the property owners wife. They have been gone about a year or so.

    Ah, so you're telling me you can't prove it either. Don't take it personally Warlock, no one else can prove it. Quitw why you have you make an excuse ("I could have proved ghosties but they went away") I don't know. I don't care if you believe in them. I just want to be clear that me not believing them is entirely due to the failure of those who do believe in such things to prove they actually exist. Not my problem.

    Perhaps Mr. Randi is one of those, whose mere presence does not allow for, or blocks, any type of psychic activity.

    Another excuse. Did the bad doggie eat the paranormal homework?

    metatron

    If we acknowledge that intuition exists and has real practical effects ( as outcomes), then it is reasonable to think of it as part of a spectrum of information gained by means we cannot reduce.

    Ah, so you think intution and imaginatron are easily distinguishable.

    Well, when you present hard proof of paranormal claims, you can also present hard proof that intuition and imagination are easily distinguishable.

    Let me try it this way: An idea comes crashing into your head from out of nowhere. It helps you with your job or hobby or investments. You accept that intuition exists and appreciate it.

    Yeah, but that's how the brain works, or at least how we perceive it working. Our brain putting together information it already holds in the background and presenting a new angle, solution or innovation based upon that pre-existing data is one thing.

    somebody claims that that they can predict tomorrow's lotto numbers, you reject it as "psychic".

    Well, that claim is another thing entirely different from intuition; it involves the brain putting together unknown data that it could not have access to and being able to use it. I wouldn't reject them because they claimed they were a 'phychic'. I would reject such claims as they wouldn't be able to do it. By all means, prove me wrong.

  • metatron
    metatron

    Intuition and psychic effects are part of a scale, a spectrum. To speak of them as "entirely different"

    clouds the matter. Even skeptics will sometimes offer explanations that involve unusually heightened

    senses ( Truzzi) or cryptoamnesia to explain cases in which a person gains knowledge by means

    that can't be clearly pinned down.

    As to intuition and matters of critical judgement, I say this: if any of you esteem your powers of

    critical judgement , then POST YOUR PICKS! I see lots of people posting here who claim all sorts

    of superior knowledge and judgement - which relative to Watchtowerism - is not too great an

    achievement. If you really have outstanding critical ability, why aren't you making money with it?

    Why aren't you playing the markets? and in particular, Why aren't you sharing this knowledge with

    the rest of us? I realize that this sounds like 'if you're so smart, how come you're not rich?"

    but if so, so be it. I've made posts about stock picks that hardly anyone responds to .

    Give us your wisdom. Let's get rich.

    metatron

  • Clam
    Clam

    I'm getting deja vu. Is that normal or paranormal?

    Clam

  • Warlock
    Warlock
    I would invite Abaddon and Alan F. to my haunted office, but it seems like the spirit(s) have left, with the death of the property owners wife. They have been gone about a year or so.

    Ah, so you're telling me you can't prove it either. Don't take it personally Warlock, no one else can prove it. Quitw why you have you make an excuse ("I could have proved ghosties but they went away") I don't know. I don't care if you believe in them. I just want to be clear that me not believing them is entirely due to the failure of those who do believe in such things to prove they actually exist. Not my problem.

    Perhaps Mr. Randi is one of those, whose mere presence does not allow for, or blocks, any type of psychic activity.

    Another excuse. Did the bad doggie eat the paranormal homework?

    Abbadon,

    Whatever happened here, was so out of the blue, there would be no way to predict when, if ever, it would happen again.

    But like I said, if you ever come down to Southern California, let me know, and I'll give you a tour.............of my office, and explain to you what happened.

    Warlock

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