Why did you write about it? I really do not care about this topic because doctors and JW are working together to come up with solutions.
Anyone's doctor force their hand about being listed as a JW?
by Mysterious 16 Replies latest watchtower medical
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Scully
If you were in high school you certainly had the right to discuss any medical issue with the doctor privately, without your mother there. You have the right to go in privately for any number of things, including discussing your menstrual cycle, birth control, abortion information, etc.
Your doctor was being insensitive - he could have (and should have) asked your mother to step out briefly. There are things going on with teenagers that they don't want to talk about in front of their mothers.
Whenever I have a teen patient whose parent(s) hover and don't want to give her privacy to answer simple, but personal, questions, it really makes me wonder whether I'm getting an honest answer, or whether they're telling me what they want their parents to hear. I try to make a point to get some private time with them and let them know that whatever they tell me will not get back to their parents. That's when the floodgates open.
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No Apologies
Scully,
I totally disagree with your post. First of all, the doctor did nothing wrong. As far as he knew, both Mysterious and her mother were both JW, and so he noted it on her chart. I can't even understand why this is an issue. How many kids are going to have a problem with this???? A doctor is not going to pull every patient away from their parents to check their feelings about their parents religion.
If you were in high school you certainly had the right to discuss any medical issue with the doctor privately, without your mother there. You have the right to go in privately for any number of things, including discussing your menstrual cycle, birth control, abortion information, etc.
We're talking about a minor here. What rights are you talking about? What about the parents rights? They have the right to decide what's best for their child. And who are you to keep information from a parent?
No Apologies
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Scully
NoApologies:
I totally disagree with your post. First of all, the doctor did nothing wrong. As far as he knew, both Mysterious and her mother were both JW, and so he noted it on her chart. I can't even understand why this is an issue. How many kids are going to have a problem with this???? A doctor is not going to pull every patient away from their parents to check their feelings about their parents religion.
If you were in high school you certainly had the right to discuss any medical issue with the doctor privately, without your mother there. You have the right to go in privately for any number of things, including discussing your menstrual cycle, birth control, abortion information, etc.
We're talking about a minor here. What rights are you talking about? What about the parents rights? They have the right to decide what's best for their child. And who are you to keep information from a parent?
You are free to disagree with me all you like, No Apologies. The fact remains that a child of high school age (actually it's 12 years old here) in my jurisdiction (and in most of the free world) can, if they so wish, go to a free clinic and get birth control or arrange for an abortion or get counselling on STDs or safe sexual practices. Would you prefer to keep a child ignorant of these matters, if that was the parents' intent? What if the child disagrees with the parents' idea of what is in their best interests - for example, if a young teenager gets raped by a JW elder and wants the morning after pill, or decides that she wants an abortion if she becomes pregnant as a result of the rape. You know a JW parent (or even a devout Catholic or Muslim parent) is not going to allow their daughter to get an abortion - but whose body is it? Would you deny a teenager her own bodily integrity yet again by forcing her to deliver a child she conceived as a result of rape or sexual abuse?
I don't necessarily like the idea of my young teenager being on birth control and going behind my back to get it either. But I would hope that my relationship with my child would be one where they felt free to discuss those things with me rather than going someplace else. Don't get me wrong, in a perfect world, there would be no need for teenagers to sneak around behind their parents' backs and seek out doctors and nurses to help them get the medical assistance and lifestyle information they feel that they need. When a child feels that they have no other recourse but to go behind their parents' back to get medical advice that they want and need, it's a big red flag to me that the relationship is not one where mutual respect and open communication is fostered or encouraged.
When I was 16, my then 15 year old brother had an accident where he bled profusely - fortunately he was ok and avoided a major incident regarding blood transfusions. At the time, I wasn't baptized, neither was my brother. This is an incident my brother mentions when we talk about why he isn't a JW today. He was crushed that our parents would have let him die even if he didn't want to die if it came to that. When you talk about parental rights, in theory and in a perfect world, everything should be hunky dory. But things aren't always the way they should be or the way we would like them to be - and that's why teenagers can and should have the right to make properly informed decisions about their own bodily integrity.
Ultimately, it is not the place of a physician or a nurse to disclose confidential medical information to a parent that a minor child wishes to keep confidential. We can encourage a minor child to disclose to their parents, and we can be there to help them do it, but it's not my place, nor is it a doctor's place, to betray patient confidences.
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No Apologies
Scully:
The fact remains that a child of high school age (actually it's 12 years old here) in my jurisdiction (and in most of the free world) can, if they so wish, go to a free clinic and get birth control or arrange for an abortion or get counselling on STDs or safe sexual practices.
12 years old? That's insane! And I don't think I alone in thinking that.
As to your hypothetical situations, they are just that, hypothetical. As all pro-abortionists do, you throw out the "what about rape victims?" straw man. Let's get real here. You're saying that when your 12 year old child is raped, the best outcome is for the child to keep the parents from finding out about the rape, go and get an abortion, all without the parents ever finding out. Yeah, that makes total sense. If I was the parent in this hypothetical situation, I would hope to God my child would come to me, so that I could do whatever I could to help her recover from this awful situation. If she was pregnant, again, I would want to be there for her, and depending on all the circumstances, it may be that abortion is the right choice. But why should a child have to make this kind of decision on their own???
As for your brother, I have to believe that if he wanted blood, the doctors would have found a way to give him blood. If they can get a court order to give blood to a teenager who doesn't want it, they certainly could do it for a teen who did.
Ultimately, it is not the place of a physician or a nurse to disclose confidential medical information to a parent that a minor child wishes to keep confidential. We can encourage a minor child to disclose to their parents, and we can be there to help them do it, but it's not my place, nor is it a doctor's place, to betray patient confidences.
By the way, who pays for the contraceptives and abortions for these kids? Let me guess, the parents get a bill with no explanation of what its for. What a great system.
No Apologies
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aSphereisnotaCircle
you throw out the "what about rape victims?" straw man.
This is not a straw man argument, rape victims do get pregnant.
I realize that you, like me want what is best for our children, and don't want them making huge dicisions behind our backs.
But obviously, you were raised by pretty good parents, if you had not been, you would understand what it's like to be a teenager in a tough situation with parents who do not have your best interests at heart.
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Scully
As to your hypothetical situations, they are just that, hypothetical.
As aSphereisnotaCircle pointed out, some girls who get raped or otherwise sexually abused do get pregnant. That's not a hypothetical. It's simple biology.
As all pro-abortionists do, you throw out the "what about rape victims?" straw man.
"all pro-abortionists"?? If you're going to complain about so-called strawman arguments, please don't resort to making broad generalizations about "all" pro-abortionists, and don't bother lumping me in with them. What makes you think pro-choice is the same as pro-abortion?
Let's get real here. You're saying that when your 12 year old child is raped, the best outcome is for the child to keep the parents from finding out about the rape, go and get an abortion, all without the parents ever finding out. Yeah, that makes total sense. If I was the parent in this hypothetical situation, I would hope to God my child would come to me, so that I could do whatever I could to help her recover from this awful situation.
I hope that any child would be able to go to their parents in a situation like that. That's why I talked about a "perfect world" scenario - but you know, since you're all about "getting real" after all, that this is not always the case. And that is why there are alternatives for kids who need someone to talk to when they are terrified to talk to their parents.
If she was pregnant, again, I would want to be there for her, and depending on all the circumstances, it may be that abortion is the right choice. But why should a child have to make this kind of decision on their own???
Again, they shouldn't have to make that choice on their own. I never said that they did. However, some kids know that their parents will not even consider the option that their child wants. Do you really feel that it would be appropriate or compassionate to compel your (hypothetical) recently raped teenage daughter to go through with a pregnancy she does not want to carry to term? or raise a child that she didn't want to have that would remind her of the rape? or go through a full-term pregnancy resenting the fetus growing inside her, changing her appearance before she's mentally or emotionally ready? going through childbirth or a cesarean section? Would it be fair to ask your (hypothetical) daughter to do all that when she was certain that she did NOT want to?
As for your brother, I have to believe that if he wanted blood, the doctors would have found a way to give him blood. If they can get a court order to give blood to a teenager who doesn't want it, they certainly could do it for a teen who did.
Yes, but according to what you said in your initial post, doing what you suggested would be infringing on my parents' rights. Waffle much?
We're talking about a minor here. What rights are you talking about? What about the parents rights? They have the right to decide what's best for their child. And who are you to keep information from a parent?
I'm not saying that there are cut and dry answers that apply to every situation. That's why we have discussions like these and ethics boards to guide the decision making process. I'm not saying that teenagers are always the going to make the best decisions - I'm sure everyone on the planet who's ever been a teenager will agree that we made some pretty stupid choices growing up. But it's part of how we grow up and learn to accept responsibility for our actions. When you have parents who don't allow kids to make their own mistakes, you end up with adults who don't know how to make decisions on their own. It's doing kids a disservice to impose parental values on them all the time. Our goal as parents should be to teach kids how to think more than what to think.
The issue of pro-choice and pro-life would have been settled centuries ago, imo, if it were men who could get pregnant against their will and face the prospect of giving birth to and raising a child they didn't want to have.
FWIW, I think we are a lot closer to agreeing with each other than disagreeing.