link to new york times discussion (page 3)

MacHislopp

Hello Trilobite,

thanks again for the information.

Please tell us and give - if possible - a direct link

to the N.Y. Times or similar newspapers.

Don't forget to mention if there is a need to register.

Thanks again, greetings J.C.MacHislopp

" One who has an accurate knowledge
of God's Word will have no problem
in refuting false religious ideas".

This is the link but I can't get the whole thing to go blue so you need to paste it in. You also need to register but it's anonymous. The aim is to flood the board but by trying to work the UN Jw thing in with other posters' comments. That way it doesn't stay an isolated topic. I'm trying to be a bit confrontational also in some threads...just to stir up interest.

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?13@@.f1a996e

T.

Trilobite

Mac,

ps: Her eis a better way:

Go to http://forums.nytimes.com/comment/

then scroll down the middle column to "Religion in America."

T.

hsmew

questions begging answers over at the nyt

Hmmm

hsmew

That is one lousy BB design. I saw your question, and responded to it, but I can't make heads or tails of that board.

Hmmm

sf

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?13@@.f1a996e

New York Times on the Web Forums News Forums National

Religion in America
Religion has had an integral part in the wake of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. On the one hand, the terrorism itself has been blamed on extremist views by the prime suspect, Osama bin Laden. On the other hand, President Bush quoted Biblical scripture in his first address to the nation on September 11. At the same time that many Americans have turned to their various religions to try to understand the attacks, there have been instances of Arab-Americans being persecuted because of their perceived beliefs.

What role is religion playing in your life these days? How do you feel about the decidedly Christian tone many politicians have adopted in discussing these difficult issues? Has your view on religion changed since September 11 for any reason?

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(20251 previous messages)
jonathanbaker - 10:10pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20252 of 20258)
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh". - Voltaire

mrembox 10/13/01 9:49pm

I just read the link you provided illustrating the JW shenanigans at the U.N. Thank you.

Why am I not surprised? When lunacy is the basis of a value-system anything (for the worse) is possible.

mrembox - 10:19pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20253 of 20258)

jonathan,

damn! I took the astrophysics bit literally since only such an individual, or so I thought, could invent the other stuff! I lived in LA, and for some time in Princeton, but now, it's Utah. That has quite possibly taken the edge off my once somewhat perceptive side!

"When lunacy is the basis of a value-system anything (for the worse) is possible."

Please do send this comment to The Guardian. It is priceless....

jonathanbaker - 10:24pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20254 of 20258)
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh". - Voltaire

mrembox 10/13/01 10:19pm

I just checked the Google search-engine, and it seems that Stephen R. (Steve) Wiggins is still professor of applied mechanics at CalTech.

Utah, huh? I have never been there. All the travel photos make it appear very attractive. Are you in Salt Lake City?

wt-un-hmmm - 10:26pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20255 of 20258)

hsmew: why JW mainstreaming attracts flak

First, I hope I'm doing this right. Either I'm a moron, or the people who set up this DB are, because this is the most klunky, awkward mess of a DB I've ever seen.

Anyway, to answer your question: If the Watchtower Society actually GOES mainstream, that would mitigate some of the flak they're currently taking. But the WT boasts that it's OK to lie to carry out their "theocratic warfare." Did they attach themselves to an arm of the UN to go mainstream, or was it a lie to legitimize themselves to countries that are currently investigating or opposing them on Human Rights grounds? If the latter, which is very likely given their history, it needs to be exposed.

Also, the issue of hypocrisy is no small one. The WT leaders allowed their followers to DIE rather than purchase a $.25 political card in one-party Malawi, while allowing adherants in more politically-influential Mexico to compromise on that issue.

They would instantly and ruthlessly disfellowship* ANY member who saluted their country's flag, recited a pledge of allegiance, or (heaven forbid) publically supported the UN by word or deed.

Should they be allowed to secretly solicit association with what they portray as one of the worst organizations in human history, while mercilessly punishing the rank and file for the same thing?

Hmmm

Disfellowshipping is enforced shunning. A disfellowshipped person is spiritually "dead." Faithful members are forbidden to associate with such a one, "not even saying a greeting" to them, under pain of being disfellowshipped themselves. This prohibition extends even to immediate family members and is the cause of incredible grief and terror among Witnesses.

mrembox - 10:29pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20256 of 20258)

Jonathan,

even worse; Logan, Utah. Thanks for the info on Steve Wiggins, but, it was, I have to admit a tiny test of which I am now terribly ashamed. He's now in Bristol, England. Utah is quite nice, and the Olympics might just bring the place into the 20th century. Let me know if you are ever in the vicinity...

(and I did mean 20th...)

lillyofg - 10:32pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20257 of 20258)

If Liberals are thinking they were wrong about Bush.....wait until they see how wrong they are about God!

outnfree - 10:33pm Oct 13, 2001 EST (#20258 of 20258)

hsmew,

"What's wrong with an organization registering with a public relations office of the UN?"

Absolutely nothing. As long as the organization actually complies with the requirements of said association. Which the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York decidedly did NOT do, because while it published some pro-UN articles in its Awake! magazine, it NEVER changed its doctrinal teaching -- first voiced in the 19-teens -- that the League of Nations/United Nations was the Satanic pseudo-governmental power which the harlot-like world empire of FALSE religion rides.

By associating with the UN's DPI as a non-governmental organization, the Watchtower Society became guilty of fornicating with the wild beast JUST LIKE THE REST OF BABYLON THE GREAT (pictured in Revelation as a whore)!

In its Watchtower magazine, and in Bible study aids for over 80 years, the UN has been something "disgusting." It is a political entity which is attempting to usurp the position of God's Kingdom to come -- which the Witnesses believe to be a literal government. In Witnessland, God's Kingdom comes ON EARTH while Jesus rules over it from heaven. This explains why Witnesses are apolitical. They keep to strict political neutrality.

If a Jehovah's Witness serves in the military -- even just as a cook or an MP or something not directly involved in warfare -- he or she is immediately cast out of the congregation. If a Jehovah's Witness were to state that s/he was willingly supporting the United Nations and disseminating information about its programs and ideals to his/her contact, s/he would be cast out of the congregation.

In addition, Witnesses are religious iconoclasts. NO ecumenism for this group.

So THIS is why the UN connection is so upsetting to thinking Witnesses. WHY can the HIERARCHY seek association with the political entity which the UN represents? WHY can the HIERARCHY place itself amid the other organizations: religious, humanitarian, political and otherwise, who comprise UN NGO's? This is something the average Witness on the street could never do without risking excommunication! (and in JW circles -- excommunication means even family members IN ONE'S OWN HOUSEHOLD who are Witnesses cannot discuss ANY spiritual matter with you. And if one DOESN'T live in the same household with Witness family members, contact will be minimal, if at all.)

Actually, it would be very nice if the Watchtower Society became more mainstream. But it's UN NGO/DPI status is a joke, anyway. It's an NGO with a supposed interest in human rights -- but Witnesses' human rights are suppressed by the Watchtower organization itself!

New York Times on the Web Forums News Forums National Religion in America

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hsmew

Hmmmm, sf, etc,

It is a rottenly set up board; but look at the interest we are generating. Please remmeber to fill out your S8 slips and do your return visits.

You know, we spend all this time talking to each other here; why not talk to each other there and spread the word? What does the WTS fear more than apostates? Criticism from outsiders.

link to new york times discussion

MacHislopp

Trilobite

Trilobite

hsmew

Hmmm

sf

hsmew

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