Women aren't suppose to be ministers..says who?

by A-Team 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • A-Team
    A-Team

    I've been hearing this from the 7 day advantist, Church of Christ and Jws, and was show 1 Cor 14:36 as proof. But, I decided to read the context of the verse....and It paints a different picture, atleast IMO (PS I am not saying that Females should be heads of Congerations, now that is out of order.) I'm using the Message Translation, for clarity. What does 1 Cor 14:26-36 mean to you?

    26-33 So here's what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight. If prayers are offered in tongues, two or three's the limit, and then only if someone is present who can interpret what you're saying. Otherwise, keep it between God and yourself. And no more than two or three speakers at a meeting, with the rest of you listening and taking it to heart. Take your turn, no one person taking over. Then each speaker gets a chance to say something special from God, and you all learn from each other. If you choose to speak, you're also responsible for how and when you speak. When we worship the right way, God doesn't stir us up into confusion; he brings us into harmony. This goes for all the churches—no exceptions.

    34-36 Wives must not disrupt worship, talking when they should be listening, asking questions that could more appropriately be asked of their husbands at home. God's Book of the law guides our manners and customs here. Wives have no license to use the time of worship for unwarranted speaking. Do you—both women and men—imagine that you're a sacred oracle determining what's right and wrong? Do you think everything revolves around you?

    Now, if women wern't suppose to be ministers, then all of this wouldn't be true..

    Exodus 15:20: Miriam, the sister of Aaron was a prophetess and one of the triad of leaders of Israel during the Exodus from Egypt.

    Judges 4 & 5: Deborah, a prophet-judge, headed the army of ancient Israel.

    2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22 Huldah, a prophet, verified the authenticity of the "Book of the Law of the Lord given through Moses." She triggered a religious renewal.

    Acts 9:36 The author of Luke referred to a female disciple by her Aramaic name Tabitha, who was also known by her Greek name Dorcas. She became sick had died; Peter brought her back to life.


    Acts 21:8: Philip the evangelist had four unmarried daughters who were prophets.

    Philippians 4:2: Paul refers to two women, Euodia and Syntyche, as coworkers who were active evangelicals, spreading the gospel.

    Romans 16:1: Paul refers to Phoebe as a minister (diakonos) of the church at Cenchrea. Some translations say deaconess; others try to obscure her position by mistranslating it as "servant" or "helper".

    Romans 16:3: Paul refers to Priscilla as another of his "fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (NIV) Other translations refer to her as a "co-worker". But other translations attempt to downgrade her status by calling her a "helper". The original Greek word is "synergoi", which literally means "fellow worker" or "colleague." (7)

    Romans 16:7: Paul refers to a male apostle, Andronicus, and a female apostle, Junia, as "outstanding among the apostles" (NIV) The Amplified Bible translates this passage as "They are men held in high esteem among the apostles" The Revised Standard Version shows it as "they are men of note among the apostles". The reference to them both being men does not appear in the original Greek text. The word "men" was simply inserted by the translators, apparently because the translators' minds recoiled from the concept of a female apostle. Many translations, including the Amplified Bible, Rheims New Testament, New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version simply picked the letter "s" out of thin air, and converted the original "Junia" (a woman) into "Junias" (a man).


    We all know that scripture works with one another......so how do we interpit the females role inside the Ministry?

  • barry
    barry

    Gday Mr Ateam.

  • barry
    barry

    Gday Mr A Team,

    In fact 7 day adventists do have a few ministers in the states and also have a long tradition of women lay preachers leading in the divine service.

    In Australia females have taken theology degrees but I dont know any that have been ordained as ministers.

    Barry

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    Jesus sure didn't treat women as inferior in any way. The first person he outspokenly told that he was the messiah was the Samaritan woman at the well.

    The first ones to see him after his resurrection were women also. Why? He could have chosen one of the apostles, but he didn't.

    Some women, such as Lydia, had churches that met in their homes and obviously took very active roles in the congregation.

    Who was at the foot of the cross while Jesus was dying. Were there not women there?

    I think Jesus is the best example to follow on the treatment of women in the church.

  • A-Team
    A-Team

    Well, I'm reading everything in context now, and it is beginning to make sense....in this way.

    Chapter 14 is talking about The Priority of Prophecy over Tongues, while verses 26-40 talk about the orderly way it should be. and from all indications, inside the Church, Women were asking questions about what was going on while the Speaking of Tongs were going forth, and women should be quiet while it was going forth and shouls ask questions about Toungs when they got home.

    A pastor told me the exact same thing last year, but I had to research for myself to find out what this really meant. Now If I am wrong, I am wrong.

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    I am not aware of any Evangelical Christian belief system that relegates women to a subservient role in ministry, with the exception perhaps of some extreme fundamentalist groups, who attempt to read more into Scripture than that which is available.

    Women feature prominently in the NT as participating in community worship, and often even as specially appointed church officials, and as co-workers with the apostles.The dress codes that Paul outlined in 1Cor 11:2-16 interestingly enough, give careful directives concerning how men and women who were leading congregational worship were to be attired. That the women needed a head covering did not deny them a leadership role, remember, but that when leading [vs 5] a woman had an indication of her leadership position. In this respect a careful reading of the passage provides the assumption that women will be leading mixed congregations in prayer and prophecy. That these two features of worship consisted, in degrees of leadership roles, can be seen in that Paul explained at 1Cor 14:3, 24-25, that prophecy included preaching and teaching.

    Today we associate these functions with those of an ordained minister within a denominational code.

    For some reason which Paul leaves undiscussed, the leadership roles of elders and deacons, mentioned in 1Tim 3, and Tit 1, were assigned to what exclusively appear to be males. However there is some indication that for deacons at least, this was not so strongly gender based. At Ro 16:1, Paul refers to one Phoebe, who is described as a "diaconos" of the church that met at Cenchrea. Whereas it is possible to translate this word as "servant" as does the NASV, it is far more probable that, since the word is used in circumstances relevant to church worship, that it be rendered as "minister" or "deacon" as does 1Tim 3:8. I hasten to add that NASV is not as as anti feminine as their translation at Ro 16:1 would suggest, since they tacitly acknowledge the use of "minister" in their footnote. I can quote at least two translations that even use "deacon" here: "Nathaniel Scarlett's NT" translation of 1798, and the recently published "Source NT" translated by Dr Ann Nyland, Prof. of Classics and Ancient History, at the U of New England, NSW, Aust. [pub 2004]

    Paul speaks with fondness of women who were his co-workers, [Phil 4:3] certainly indicating equality in ministering, and it may even be possible to see in Junia, mentioned at Ro 16:7, a women of the rank of apostle.

    There are many ordained women in many Protestant denominations The Assemblies of God [charismatic], Baptist, Disciples of Christ [known as The Churches of Christ in UK/Aust] Methodists, Lutheran, Presbyterian among others. In these denominations women participate in the same areas of ministry as their male counterparts, and, are paid equally [See Evangelical Dict of Theology pg 1182]

    Much of the confusion regarding the subservience of women comes from an incorrect or at least detrimental understanding of the phrase that the "man is the head of the women" annunciated by Paul at 1Cor 11:3. It needs to be learnt by some men at least, that Paul did not spell "head" as "B-O-S-S"

    In fact we have several women ministers on JWD, Blondie is our WT Study Conductor, and Leolaia our Presiding Overseer. I mean, what more do you girls want?

    Cheers

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    PS I am not saying that Females should be heads of Congerations, now that is out of order.

    Why?

    In my secular career, I am a leader. By nature I am a leader. What does gender have to do with my suitability? In my case it is a moot point, as I am not called. But I've gained a sympathy for women pastors who have received the call to ministry, and obey.

    http://www.abwim.org/information.asp

    http://www.bwim.info/index.php/html/main/welcome.html

    http://gbgm-umc.org/global_news/full_article.cfm?articleid=4187

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    This is an area that has been a huge change in our lives since departing from captivity to the man-man teachings of the Borg.

    In my secular life, which was in the area of multinational corporations, I was well-used to sharing with female executives, my own P.A, was a female etc etc. In truth, I never took it to account, that is, gender made no difference to giftedness for positions of responsibility.

    For Mrs Ozzie, life since the Borg has meant tremendous changes. She first was amazed that there was no secret "men's business" in church. She, like anyone else in the congregation, is free to know anything about deliberations of the church council.

    In more recent times she has taken her own place on church council, being elected to the position for the past two years. At the same time, she has felt a calling to ministry and I exult in seeing her share the faith with other women, leading in church services and so on.

    Now tomorrow comes another step for she is to be installed as a lay minister in our church.

    How different her life has become in 10 years!

  • ninja
    ninja

    hey...I do.....we say amen...not awomen....we sing hymns...not hers...I rest my case

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk
    we say amen...not awomen....we sing hymns...not hers

    True genius!

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