Preaching Work is unique identifier

besty

Several conversations with current JW's have thrown up this validation of their faith.

I can think of several lines of refutation:

1 - Ask 'Is increase proof of Gods blessing?' then answer 'Why have faiths starting at a similar time had better results as measured by numbers of adherents eg Seventh Day Adventists 14.4m members and over 1m baptised in 2005. Mormons 12.2m members etc?'

2 - Develop the argument around the meaning of 'from door to door' as opposed to 'in private homes' as per ISOCF Ray Franz

3 - Ask 'Why are you not allowed to create your own website to share your faith? The internet is recognised as the most powerful means of mass communication ever invented'

Anybody got things that have worked well for them?

Cheers

Besty '

jwfacts

I use pretty much the same tack. If other religions do not preach how come they have any members? I have done an article at

jwfacts

Sorry, double post.

brinjen

Oh but dubs are the only ones who preach the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth....

It's like that joke where the guy goes to heaven and gets told by god to keep quiet when walking past a certain part of heaven as thats where the dubs are and they think they are the only ones there.

They don't let the rank and file know about other religions doing and believing the same things as this would make them no longer unique. They would be just another publishing company.

B_Deserter

1 - Ask 'Is increase proof of Gods blessing?' then answer 'Why have faiths starting at a similar time had better results as measured by numbers of adherents eg Seventh Day Adventists 14.4m members and over 1m baptised in 2005. Mormons 12.2m members etc?'

My answer to this would have been that Jehovah's Witnesses only count active members in their ranks. Mormon numbers are especially skewed in this area for two reasons. First, they perform baptism for the dead and count these people as members (despite their zombie status). Also, from what I've seen written by many former Mormons, getting themselves removed from the membership rolls is a decade-long battle in many cases.

As far as Seventh-Day Adventists, I don't know much about them, but would assume they're a lot like most mainline churches. I think if all these churches started only counting people who showed up for church every Sunday as members instead of just everyone that gives them money, we'd see those number shrink really fast.

"2 - Develop the argument around the meaning of 'from door to door' as opposed to 'in private homes' as per ISOCF Ray Franz "

I personally would use the accounts of Christian preaching activity in Acts 5:42 and 20:20 as evidence that the house to house (or "door to door") method was in use in the first century. Of course, one thing the literature never seems to notice is that these scriptures only refer to the apostles preaching from house to house. There is no biblical basis for requiring every Christian to preach in this manner.

"3 - Ask 'Why are you not allowed to create your own website to share your faith? The internet is recognised as the most powerful means of mass communication ever invented'"

We all know the answer to that one :). I have two theories about why this ruling was made (well, it wasn't really a ruling, I believe the KM in question said "there is no need" to put up websites explaining beliefs). The first answer is the obvious, putting yourself out there and identifying yourself as a Witness will draw the attention of Apostates who will "poison" you. The second answer is not so obvious. I think the Society knows that every belief and teaching is not shared by every member. Most Witnesses disagree with the society about at least one thing, but they still think that it's God's organization and he will sort it all out in the end. Brooklyn tolerates this, as long as one doesn't' discuss his disagreements with others. Putting your own beliefs out there would reveal where you disagree with the Watchtower, and other witnesses might see it and agree with you as well, drawing loyalty away from the FDS. The internet provides a forum too public and too free for Brooklyn to be comfortable with.

Quandry

"3 - Ask 'Why are you not allowed to create your own website to share your faith? The internet is recognised as the most powerful means of mass communication ever invented'"

Well, first of all the WTS says that its literature has the truth. Where is the literature and donation if the witnessing is done via the web?

Second, what if someone asked a question in return about, say, the Bible meaning of generation? Or the WT stance on blood fractions? I know I, for one, would have had no clue how to answer anyone in a logical way, as I was so confused by the convoluted flip flopping myself.

The WTS realizes that the people who converse over the web would not necessarily get the "official" version.

38 Years

Brooklyn has been using this line for decades. I like #1, the dubs always have competition from the Mormons in preaching, so no, they are not unique. Just this quick fact alone refutes their statement.

ozziepost

Firstly, I must acknowledge that the Lord doesn't call on his followers to be big but to be holy.

Having said that, there's no doubt that numbers do mean something, so.....

I wonder how it is that right next door to Australia Bethel in an area where the number of dubs has been languishing for the past few years, that without any of the "house to house™" methodology of the WT, the conservative Anglican Church right next door has doubled in size of regular, active members in just the past two years?? !!!

No, there were no 'give-aways', no rock bands, no bingo, none of the things that the WT falsely claims is the case in all churches.

So, how come?

By doing real evangelising, by living an active faith in the community.

Sorry, WTS, "by their fruits you will know them" - how true!

Frank75

Nothing really works for the truly committed and brain dead dub, however if you have someone with doubts, these (beliefs such as "we are preaching the Good News!) are propagandist pegs that hold even the dissident dub in limbo.

I have used Gal 1:8 with success by asking the dub if "the preaching work, method and most importantly message is the same as 1st Century?"

If they say yes, then ask them to point out 1914 doctrine, paradise earth, great crowd or similar belief being preached. They then will say "No"!

Gal 1:8?

However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.

I also like to read with them Matt 28:19, 20. After reading it i ask them if they have personally baptised anyone or would be permitted to.

So why is the "go therefore and preach" part binding on you and yet the "baptizing them" part is not? Who decides which of Jesus commands you do and which you do not?

Frank75

Lady Liberty

I would ask them:

1. Why is the Good News today different from the Good News Jesus preached!??

2. And who gave them the authority to change it??

3. Why has the slave changed what the Master approved of???

4. How do they explain away the warning from Galations 1:6-9 "

6

I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

Rockhound recently started a thread with a bunch of Watchtower quotes admitting the message has been changed. Here is the thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/135162/2406846/post.ashx#2406846

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

Preaching Work is unique identifier

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