JWs NOT TO SUPPORT OF GOVERNMENTS QUESTION

by hawkaw 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  hawkaw

  Can anyone give me some WT quotes of what JWs should and should not do with Governments.

  ie. salute flag and supoort US constitution etc?

  hawk
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  dungbeetle

  I PROMISE I will have that cd in the mail to you Monday.

  Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...
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  dungbeetle

  WT8/1/99
  18 Do we have to show honor to those outside the congregation? Yes. For example, we are instructed: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities.” (Romans 13:1) These are the secular rulers that Jehovah allows to exercise authority until his Kingdom replaces them. (Daniel 2:44) So we “render to all their dues, to him who calls for the tax, the tax; to him who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to him who calls for fear, such fear; to him who calls for honor, such honor.” (Romans 13:7) We are to “honor men [or, women] of all sorts.”—1 Peter 2:17

  WT 6/15/98
  THE innocent should have nothing to fear from true justice. Indeed, citizens almost everywhere have reason to be grateful if their country has a legal system that tries to ensure justice. Such a system involves a framework of laws, a police force to enforce them, and courts to administer justice. True Christians respect the judicial system in which they live, in keeping with the Biblical admonition to “be in subjection to the superior authorities.”—Romans 13:1-7.

  Awake 9/8/99
  The Bible’s Viewpoint
  What Makes a Good Citizen?
  AFTER World War II, many people in Europe and Japan who considered themselves to be good, law-abiding citizens found themselves tried and convicted for war crimes. Among them were high-ranking military officials, scientists, and other professionals. In an effort to justify their actions, some of these criminals explained that they were simply obeying orders, as would be expected of any good citizen. Their self-proclaimed good citizenship, however, led them to commit terrible crimes against humanity.
  On the other hand, there are those who disregard the authority of the State. Some openly reject governmental authority, while others are ready to break the law as long as there is little danger of getting caught. Of course, few would deny that there is need for obedience to authority, for without it there would be anarchy and chaos. However, the question is, How far should the discharge of civic duty and obedience to law go? Consider some basic principles that helped the first-century Christians to have a balanced view of their responsibilities to the State.
  Christian Subjection to the Authorities
  First-century Christians willingly submitted to the laws and regulations of those who were “superior authorities”—that is, the ruling powers of the day. (Romans 13:1) Christians believed it was right “to be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers.” (Titus 3:1) Although they recognized Christ as their heavenly King, they were also law-abiding subjects of their human rulers and posed no threat to the security of the State. In fact, they were encouraged to “have honor for the king” at all times. (1 Peter 2:17) The apostle Paul even encouraged Christians: “I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness.”—1 Timothy 2:1, 2.
  First-century Christians conscientiously paid whatever taxes were demanded of them, even though at times this was an onerous burden. They followed the inspired direction given by the apostle Paul on this matter: “Render to all their dues, to him who calls for the tax, the tax.” (Romans 13:7) In the view of Jesus’ disciples, the Roman government and its officers were ruling by God’s permission and in a sense were serving as “God’s public servants,” in that they provided a measure of peace and stability in society.—Romans 13:6.
  “Ready for Every Good Work”
  First-century Christians were encouraged to accept civic duties imposed by the State. Jesus Christ himself advised his disciples to be willing at times to do even more than the minimum demanded by the civil authorities. “If someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile,” he said, “go with him two miles.” (Matthew 5:41) In following this advice, Christians showed that they did not wish to take the benefits of living in a civilized society without giving something in return. They were always “ready for every good work.”—Titus 3:1; 1 Peter 2:13-16.
  They genuinely loved their neighbors and looked for ways to help them. (Matthew 22:39) Because of this love and their adherence to high moral standards, the first-century Christians were a force for good in their community. Their neighbors had ample reason to be delighted about living next door to a Christian. (Romans 13:8-10) Christians demonstrated their love by more than simply abstaining from badness. They were encouraged to be outgoing and active in the interests of others, to “work what is good [not simply toward fellow believers but] toward all,” just as Jesus Christ had.—Galatians 6:10.
  “Obey God as Ruler Rather Than Men”
  There were, however, limits to their obedience to secular authorities. They would not do anything that would violate their conscience or damage their relationship with God. For example, when the religious authorities in Jerusalem ordered the apostles to stop preaching about Jesus, they refused to comply. “We must obey God as ruler rather than men,” they declared. (Acts 5:27-29) Christians steadfastly refused to get involved in idolatrous emperor worship. (1 Corinthians 10:14; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 19:10) With what results? “Condemnations followed,” says historian J. M. Roberts, “not for being Christian, but for refusing to do something the law commanded.”—Shorter History of the World.
  Why in this instance did they ‘refuse to do something the law commanded’? They recognized that “the superior authorities” wielded power by God’s permission and thus served as “God’s minister” in maintaining law and order. (Romans 13:1, 4) But Christians still viewed God’s law as superior. They remembered that Jesus Christ had established this balancing principle for those who would be his followers: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” (Matthew 22:21) Their obligations to God had to take precedence over Caesar’s demands.
  That this was the right course is shown by what resulted when many professed Christians failed to follow these fine principles. Apostate leaders of Christendom, for example, became “pliant men [used] as instruments of civil government, notably in the raising and maintenance of military forces,” says military historian John Keegan. Their followers ended up taking sides in wars that spilled the blood of millions of innocent victims. Says Keegan: “The law of God fell on deaf ears when men’s blood was up.”
  The first-century Christians, however, provide a shining example in striking the right balance. They were good citizens. They discharged their civic duties and responsibilities well. But they firmly adhered to clear Bible principles and followed their Bible-trained conscience in all aspects of life.—Isaiah 2:4; Matthew 26:52; Romans

  Awake 3/22/97
  It is widely known that Jehovah’s Witnesses obey the governmental “superior authorities” in all matters that do not conflict with God’s Word. (Romans 13:1, 7) In no way do they constitute a threat to public order. On the contrary, their publications and public ministry encourage everyone to be a law-abiding citizen and to live a peaceful life. They are an upright and well-established religion, and their members have contributed much to the well-being of their neighborhoods. Their resoluteness in upholding the high moral standards of the Bible and their love of neighbor, as expressed especially in their Bible educational work, have had a wholesome effect in the more than 200 lands where they exist.

  I gotta comment on this. That ‘wholesome effect’ apparently does not apply to the incedible numbers of molestation and rape survivors within the org, or the 70+% of the children of JW’s who DON’t become JW’s; or the increasing numbers of murders that are occuring among the congregation members just in the US.

  Don’t you just hate being confused by FACTS….

  Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...
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  outnfree

  From Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1, Pages 991-992:

  GOVERNMENT. ... The Bible reveals that there are invisible governments that are good, established by God (Eph 3:10), and those that are wicked, established by Satan and the demons. (Eph 6:12) Jesus Christ was the active agent of God in originally setting up all righteous governments and authorities, invisible and visible. (Col 1:15, 16) He has been placed by his Father Jehovah as head of all government (Col 2:8-10), and he must rule until all opposing governments and authorities, invisible and visible, are brought to nothing. (1Co 15:24) The apostle Paul indicated that there was a system of things to come in which there would be a government under the authority of Christ. – Eph 1:19-21.
  World Governments. The Bible pictures world governments as “beasts” and says that they get their authority from the Dragon, Satan the Devil. God has permitted them to remain and has limited their scope and duration of rule, in harmony with his purpose. – Da chaps 7,8; Re chaps 13, 17; Da 4:25, 35; John 19:11; Ac 17:26; 2Co 4:3, 4; see Beasts, Symbolic.
  Christians and Governments. Jesus Christ and the early Christians did nothing to interfere with human governments of their day. (john 6:15; 17:16; 18:36; Jas 1:27; 4:4) They recognized the fact that some form of government is necessary for the existence of society, and they never fomented revolution or civil disobedience. (Ro 13:107; Tit 3:1) Jesus set forth the guiding principle for true worshipers of God to follow when he said: ‘Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.’ (Mt. 22:21) This principle enabled the early Christians (and Christians since then) to maintain a right balance as to relations with the two authorities, that of the civil governments and that of God. Jesus showed further that his position while on earth, and therefore that of all his disciples, was not one of fighting agains the ‘Caesar’ governments but, rather, on of compliance with their regulations that did not conflict with God’s law. Pilate himself recognized this fact when he said: ‘I find no fault in him.” (John 18:38) The apostles followed Jesus’ example. – Ac 4:19, 20; 5:28; 24:26; 25:10, 11, 18, 19, 25; 26:31, 32; See Kingdom; Superior Authorities.”

  outnfree

  Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
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  hsmew

  outnfree,

  Get thee over to NYT you souch of slouches!

  hs/t/mrem
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  outnfree

  From Reasoning from the Scriptures, Pages 269-276, Copyright 1989

  NEUTRALITY

  Definition:

  The position of those who do not take sides with or give support to either of two or more contending parties. It is a fact of ancient and moder-day history that in every national and under all circumstances true Christians have endeavored to maintain complete neutrality as to conflicts between factions of the world. They do not interfere with what others do about sharing in patriotic ceremonies, serving in the armed forces, joining a political party, running for a political office, or voting. But they themselves worship only Jehovah, the God of the Bible; they have dedicated their lives unreservedly to him and give their full support to his Kingdom.

  What scriptures have had a bearing on the attitude of Christians toward the authority of secular governments?

  Romans 13:1, 5-7. (No government could exist without God's permission. Regardless of the conduct of individual officials, true Christians have shown them respect because of the office they occupied. For example, regarbless of the use that governments have made of tax money, worshipers of Jehovah have made honest payment of their taxes in return for those services from which everyone could benefit.)
  Mark 12:17. (So Christians have always recognized that they must not only "pay back" money in the form of taxes to the secular government but also fulfill the superior obligations they have toward God.)
  Acts 5:28, 29. (When there has been a direct conflict between the commands of human rulers and the requirements of God, true Christians have imitated the example of the apostles by putting obedience to God first.)

  What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians toward participation in carnal warfare?
  Matt. 26:52. (Could there have been any higher cause for which to fight than to safeguard the Sond of God? Yet, Jesus here indicated that those disciples were not to resort to weapons of physical warfare.)
  Isa. 2:2-4. (Individuals out of all nations must personally decide what course they will pursue. Those who have heeded Jehovah's judgment give evidence that he is their God.)
  2 Cor. 10:3, 4. (Paul here states that he never resorted to fleshly weapons, such as trickery, high-sounding language, or carnal weapons, to protect the congregation against false teachings.)
  Luke 6:27, 28.

  Is it not true that Jehovah allowed ancient Israel to engage in warfare?
  Jehovah directed ancient Israel to use warfare to take possession of the land that he himself designated as their inheritance and to execute people whose depraved practices and defiance of the true God cause Jehovah to view them as being no longer fit to live. (Deut. 7:1, 2, 5; 9:5; Lev. 18:24,25) Nevertheless, mercy was shown to Rahab and to the Gibeonites because they demonstrated faith in Jehovah. (Josh. 2:9-13; 9:24-27) In the Law covenant God laid down rules for warfare that we would approve stipulating exptions and the manner in which this warfare was to be carried our. Such were truly holy wars of Jehovah. That is not true of the car warfare of any nation today.

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  more to follow....

  outnfree

  Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
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  outnfree

  hsmew,

  outnfree <<--- sloucher no more!

  and who the heck ARE you?????

  outnfree

  Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
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  hsmew

  outnfree,

  Pretty much everyone; hsmew, trilobite, mrembox..... but shhhhhhhhhhh...all in a good cause....

  t.
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  r51785

  So we “render to all their dues, to him who calls for the tax, the tax; to him who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to him who calls for fear, such fear; to him who calls for honor, such honor.” (Romans 13:7)

  Evidently the payment of taxes does not include taxes due the California Franchise Tax Board or the governmenet of France!
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  hawkaw

  Thanks everyone

  hawk