Barbara, what were some of those ramblings Franz would say that never got printed????
Millerite Adventism and Fred Franz
by Dogpatch 25 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
BluesBrother
I well remember the talks by F W Franz..He would hit every other syllable with a total powerhouse emphasis. He was the nearest thing to the old style religious orators, that we would see in the Borg.
At first, as a youngster, it was quite inspirational but after a bit it got monotonous - no variation of pitch, pace or pausing (my old TMS stuff still comes back to me)
I wondered what he was like in real life?
-
AndersonsInfo
Thanks Stev for your instructive comments.
By the way, I wasn't saying there was a DIRECT connection between Miller and Franz. My observation was that Franz was a "Millerite man at heart." I believe Franz was the modern-day link to Miller's style of writing, etc. Regardless of where he picked up some of Miller's views, he used them; whether he provided such information to Rutherford or used Miller as an example for his own writings or oratory, this style attracted an audience. Whether he was reading Russell's or Barbour's statements about "Dumb Dogs," their statements connected them back to the way Miller used them. Just as you said, Russell read Millerite material and Barbour had been a Millerite. And, yes, I've seen the "dumb dog" reference in the Bible.
I'll stick to what I said in my original thesis: Fred Franz had an unusual interpretive writing and oracle style. I say it was emulative of Miller's. In the 20th century this was different and Franz capitalized on it and it attracted people who were attracted to something different. I was a discontented Catholic who had never heard anybody like Fred Franz before. The Watchtower's interpretations about Daniel and Revelation convinced me this was the truth. However, as a young person not yet exposed to too much education, I never knew that Watchtower was really offering something old as something new.
Barb
-
eclipse
Well, he said,'' will you shut up ( in a deep bold voice) -- I am the next speaker and I have to save my voice''.
I think that says alot about what he was like in real life...a nice person, no matter how grumpy or stressed would tell a stranger and a fellow brother to shut up.
-
fjtoth
I used to listen to C T Russell's voice on the Photo-Drama recordings. It was remarkable how much Russell and Franz sounded alike in voice quality and manner of speaking. To me, they sounded like one and the same person.
As to Franz telling someone to "shut up," I give him the benefit of the doubt. As I remember him -- walking with him, eating meals with him at Bethel and in private homes, and transporting him to the airport and to distant Kingdom Halls -- I found him to be a gentle person who was respectful of others. I also saw him show unusual patience with nut-cases and persons with eccentric personalities. Believe what we will about him otherwise, I simply can't believe that he told somebody to "shut up," just because somebody makes that claim without any witnesses to verify that it happened.
Frank
-
Dogpatch
I'm with Frank on that one, Franz was always kind as far as I could tell.
Randy
-
greendawn
Wasn't it Franz the one that introduced the total shunning policy against ex JWs in the 1980's? If he was the one how can he be a nice person? OK he may have been nice on a personal level but ruthless on an organisational level.
-
ibme
fjt/randy,
Please don't get your exercise this morning 'jumping to conclusions' without getting the facts. That happens too often in judicial committee meetings in the WTS organization.
Has it arrived here on JWD?
I also knew the Fred Franz who used to visit some of my family members on his regular trips to Cleveland, Ohio, and yes, he could be kind, funny and musical. However, to put it in perspective. I was a 'nobody' teenager -- very small for my age. It would be one thing for an ordinary person to say something like that to me, but when I found out he was Vice President -- next to God himself -- applauded by the multitudes -- I was devastated. (Just for a monent) I never forgot being an attendant and being told by Mr Fred Franz to 'shut up'. Are you wanting the 'two witness rule' to corroborate my experience? Sorry, there was just the two of us.
Remember, here's how it goes. 'For sure brother elder, in this case Mr Fred Franz, wouldn't have said that', He's such a good brother appointed by holy spirit. You must be mistaken'
Where have I heard that tune before?
For those of you who have had nothing but positive experiences as grown ups and as peers with Mr. Franz. I'm happy for you. I've had some of those myself, but it's clear that we all have different vantage points from where we collect our experiences in life.
When I read Ray Franz's books COC and ISOCF it was clear that his own expeiences with his uncle were a mixed bag. Two sides to every coin, they say.
And yes, Greendawn, everyone on this site who has felt the better experiences of shunning to the extreme has the wonderful spirited anointed Mr. Fred Franz to thank in part. Remember, to get back at his nephew and others who he considered a threat, he toughhened up the shunning (even retroactively). Prior to that a person could even disassociate w/o severe consequences -- but then Peter Gregerson.
Ah yes!!
Wonderful Freddie!!
Memories are made of this.
Thanks
-
-
DannyHaszard
WHO SAY'S 1914 JESUS ? nearly 1.4 million pages on 1914 Watchtower it IS their CORE DOGMA