NGO status let the WT inside

by Norm 11 Replies latest jw friends

Norm

The WT representatives was definitely using the benefits of their NGO status. Imagine being in the same room as so many "Babylon the great" representatives:
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COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
Official Committee Hansard
JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,
DEFENCE AND TRADE
Reference: Australia's efforts to promote and protect freedom of
religion and belief
FRIDAY, 15 OCTOBER 1999
SYDNEY
BY AUTHORITY OF THE PARLIAMENT
INTERNET
The Proof and Official Hansard transcripts of Senate committee hearings, some House of Representatives committee hearings and some joint committee hearings are available on the Internet. Some House of
Representatives committees and some joint committees make available only Official Hansard transcripts.
The Internet address is: http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard
To search the parliamentary database, go to: http://search.aph.gov.au
JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE
Human Rights Subcommittee
Friday, 15 October 1999
Members: Senator Ferguson (Chair), Dr Theophanous (Deputy Chair), Senators Bourne,
Brownhill, Calvert, Chapman, Cook, Harradine, O'Brien, Payne, Quirke and Schacht and Ms Bailey, Mr Baird, Mr Brereton, Mr Gibbs, Mr Hawker, Mr Hollis, Mr Jull, Mrs De-Anne Kelly, Mr Lieberman, Mr Martin, Mrs Moylan, Mr Nugent, Mr O'Keefe, Mr Price, Mr Prosser, Mr Pyne, Mr Snowdon, Dr Southcott and Mr Andrew Thomson
Subcommittee members: Mr Nugent (Chair), Mr Hollis (Deputy Chair), Senators Bourne, Ferguson, Harradine and Schacht and Mr Baird, Mr Brereton, Mrs Moylan, Mr Price and Mr Pyne Senators and members in attendance: Senators Bourne, Harradine, Hollis, Payne and Schacht and Mr Nugent
Terms of reference for the inquiry:
To inquire into and report on Australia's efforts to promote and protect freedom of religion and belief, in particular:
1. the extent of violations of religious freedom around the world and the probable causes of those violations;
2. implications for other human rights arising from:
. a lack of religious freedom and
. religious differences; and
3. the most effective means by which the Australian government and NGOs can promote freedom of religion in the region and around the world.
WITNESSES
AHMAD, Mr Mahmood, National President, Ahmadiyya Muslim Association
Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 153
BASSAT, Mrs Nina, President, Executive Council of Australian Jewry 94
CORNISH, Ms Sandra Jayne, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Catholic Social Justice Council . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
COSSOR, Ms Elizabeth Jane Louise, Member, Australia Tibet Council 141
ERTAS, Mr Daniel, Vice President, Syrian Orthodox Federation of Australia 114
GOODWIN, Mr Tim, Campaign Coordinator, Campaign Strategy Team, Amnesty
International Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83
JONES, Mr Jeremy Sean, National Vice President, Executive Council of Australian Jewry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94
KHALID, Mr Saifullah, National Vice President, Ahmadiyya Muslim Association Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 153
MacLEAN, Mr Donald Howard, Director, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 124
MADIGAN, Reverend Dr Daniel Arthur, SJ, Consultant, Australian Catholic Social Justice Council . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
MANNING, Bishop Kevin Michael, Chairman, Australian Catholic Social Justice Council . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
THOMPSON, Ms Jo, National Vice-President and Secretary, Australia Tibet
Council . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 141
TOOLE, Mr Vincent Joseph, Legal Officer, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .124
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Link:
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf
Norm
cyberguy

This is very interesting! Is there a direct link to the text you've sited? It carries more weight if I can point someone to a government link.
THANKS!
Norm

Hi Cyberguy,
You said:
It carries more weight if I can point someone to a government link.
There are no less than 3 URL's to the site above. This one will take you right to the document which is in PDF format. On page 4 you will find the names of the WT people.
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/joint/commttee/j2444.pdf
Norm
Gozz

...Sickening
wannahelp

Wow Norm!!! EXCELLENT!!!!
I just had to quote one of the JW's giving his testimony here:
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Mr Toole—
I guess so, and I guess it is the same thing—you will disagree but yet you are the best of friends. That is the view we take. The fact that people do not necessarily share our particular understanding and they think, ‘Oh no, that is the not the way I want to
believe it,’ is fine. We are really trying to educate people and teach tolerance. That really is
getting at the very root cause of the problem. It is fanaticism that causes some of these
problems, where people have a singular view that their way is right and woe betide anybody
who disagrees with it. It gets to the stage, when you start having that elevated to a level of
government, where you have a very dangerous situation because then you are only one step
away from totalitarianism, where you have people in high places deciding what you can and
cannot believe on a whole host of things.
Or another quote, that hit's kinda home:
CHAIR—So if, for argument’s sake—heaven forbid—a terrorist bomb exploded and this building crumbled and we were all killed, there are people in this room who are Catholics, there are yourselves and there are those who have no faith at all. That is on the public record this morning. After the initial trauma and so on, it is likely there would be a memorial service. Would you join with other religions or churches in a joint memorial service for those who perished in this terrible tragedy or would you stand aside from that and have your
own totally separate service? I think this is what Senator Harradine was getting at.
Mr MacLean—We will take an example of what happened with that terrible train crash in Britain. Individuals certainly have a feeling of compassion and concern for those people who perished and we certainly want them to be remembered by God, as well as, naturally,
by their loved ones and so on. That would be an individual matter of choice. Some individuals from our people may want to go along and express condolences, and even say a prayer on behalf of those people that they might be remembered by God.
CHAIR—There were multidenominational commemorative services there.
Mr MacLean—Yes.
CHAIR—You are saying that your church as an organisation would not officially participate in that?
Mr MacLean—As an organisation we would probably not be there, no, but individuals have that right.
And yet a third quote:
Senator PAYNE—I have read in a number of the submissions a reference to voting. Do members of the church not vote?
Mr MacLean—No. We do not take sides politically; we avoid that. We maintain a neutral stand in regard to those things.
Senator SCHACHT—You do not vote?
Senator PAYNE—That is what he said.
Mr MacLean—No. We take advantage of the laws in each of the states in this country which allow people who have conscientious religious feelings not to vote if they wish not to.
Mr HOLLIS—Don’t you feel that you have a moral responsibility to vote?
Mr MacLean—I will just make this point: please do not feel that because we do not vote that we do not believe in order and the law and the support of Caesar, as the Bible terms it. We have a moral obligation to be strictly obedient to the law of the land. We support it and we believe it is correct to do that. We have a God-given right to do it and we should do it. But as far as supporting one party against another, we have never done that.
Mr HOLLIS—It is an interesting point and I do not want to labour it, but many people would argue that thousands of people in Timor lost their lives because they took advantage of their democratic right to vote. But I do not want to pursue that.
Mr Toole—In answer to that question—just so that you get a bit more of an overall picture—the world over we do not vote. We are neutral politically the world over.
Mr HOLLIS—We do not accept that, but that is—
Mr Toole—No, I am not asking you to, but of course it is nice that we can share those differences at the table. That is what we are all about. On the other hand, we do not go to war either. Hitler tried to get people to say, ‘Heil, Hitler.’ As far as religious organisations
were concerned, we were basically the only religion in the whole of Germany that stood its ground. He put our members in concentration camps, tried to exterminate us, and thousands lost their lives, but they would not compromise because they felt that killing people was
incompatible with being a Christian. The world over we are endeavouring to be neutral. To take Mr MacLean’s comment just a little further, we do conscientiously do what all governments would like their citizens to do—we pay their taxes and obey their laws.
There is one exception: if the government asks us to do something that we feel God has commanded us not to do, or vice versa, then we feel we have a prior obligation to obey God. That is the only limit on our obedience to governments. If all subjects of Australia, for
example, took that view it would be a very obedient country.
Senator PAYNE—We would possibly be out of a job.
Mr HOLLIS—Or it could go the other way. You make much of obeying the laws of the country, but it often is because of the laws of the country that people vote. If everyone decided not to vote, you may get laws in the country that you may have a little bit more
difficulty invoking. I personally think it is a bit of a cop-out when people use these arguments about not voting.
CHAIR—We are now into subjective judgment. We have asked the question and we have got the response, which is what we needed.
----------------------------------
Very interesting indeed...
I particularily like the "There is one exception: if the government asks us to do something that we feel God has commanded us not to do, or vice versa, then we feel we have a prior obligation to obey God. That is the only limit on our obedience to governments." quote....
I guess they felt god had commanded them to be present at this very political meeting expressing their views (basically, ehh, lobbying for their view).. God likes lobbiests.. Who would have thunk?
Tina

Hi Norm!
Thanks for the post and links!
Interesting isn't it wanna?
I always get a kick out of the worn out comment they use.They 'obey Caeser,laws of the land' like theey're really doing something special that the rest of the people aren't doing....
gee and their neutral political stance,,,,funny how they heavily use the social/legal services provided by these laws,(which they didnt vote for)yet never give anything back to the system.
The gentleman was correct in labeling it as a cop-out.
Thanks to all,great thread! Tina
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
wannahelp

Hi Tina,
Actually, if you ask me, the very fact that they were at this "commission" isn't a legal thing, it was a political thing.. They were trying to "lobby" to make sure the law supports their freedom of cult (oops, sorry, religion)..
They were talking to Senators and such... !!!!! The Lawmakers!!! (Not that I know much about Austrialian politics, but I assume a senator there is similiar to a senator here in the US..).. They were lobbying the lawmakers is what they were doing!!!!
That isn't using the laws, that's trying to influence the law.. That's politics if you ask me!!!!
Norm

Hi Wannahelp,
Yes, it is very interesting material. Here is some more:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=13687&site=3
Norm
Tina

Hi wanna,
You are absolutely correct there. That is lobbying! I guess i went off on a bit of side tangent I felt was related is all. Thanks for the insight! hugs,T
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
wannahelp

Tina,
No, you are correct also.. They do take and never give back...
You were not on a side tangent at all.. That is correct..
I just also wanted to point out that it appears to me that they are involved in politics, no matter what they say!!!
The criteria for political involvment, along with anything else they do is simply "Because it can benefit me"..

NGO status let the WT inside

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