christendom and war (page 2)

pallemar

kristianety and weapens.

as you mention, rom 13 say gods peopel, are those who are with weapons. doing evil, again those who do evil.

and jesus disciple allso had weapons. Luke 22:49-51

and then jesus meth the soldiers, he dint say to them, they shouldn't leave the weapons. Luk 3:14

a funny danish thing, the last numbers of the police phone number is 1448 and if you look in Mark 14:48 ...he he

1:17

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. isa 1:17

I don't beleave in passifism, people who ackt rules, and it shoulde be justifeing peole, who rules.

then the black got persecution, i did nothing. then the Indian got persecution, i did nothing. then the jew got persecution, i did nothing.

Now i get persecution, and no one is doing anything for me,

WHY? becourse my dear, here is no one left.

Sign Palle

esw1966

I don't like war. I don't like killing. I think I would be a consciencious objector. BUT....

I don't think that Christian man is a milk toast, hit me again, door mat. Jesus made a whip of ropes and overturned tables and called Pharisees offspring of vipers and other things that ticked them off enough to want him killed.

The nation of Isarael did a lot of killing and not all of it was under the direct leadings of God. They were a rough bunch.

The same thought against going to war allows them also to stand by and watch their wife get raped and killed without doing anything substantial about it. After that, they would agree to call the police and allow the police to shoot the person dead if it came to that. Therefore, they are in support of having someone else do their dirty work. I think that makes them hypocritical.

Also, God uses nations to accomplish his work today as he did throughout history. That means God uses the military to accomplish his purpose.

Those are some of my thoughts on war. To me jw's don't have the real gospel. They've perverted the good news about the Christ! Gal 1:7. They are accursed. v 9. They have a zeal for God but not according to accurate knowledge for because of not knowing the righteousnes of God,but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. Rom 10:2-4. The righteousness of God is that through faith in Jesus Christ all may know that they have eternal life and this not owing to themselves but as it truly is, a gift from God! Not by works, but by faith! Rom 3:21-26.

jw's do not put their salvation in Jesus' hands. They seek to establish their own through meeting attendance, service hours, priviledges, etc, etc, etc. Life is a gift from God for those who put their faith in the offering God provided by means of his son for our sins.

So, rather than getting hung up on whether or not jw's are right about war or not, the big picture is they missed out on God's purpose and his love and his righteousness and have sought their own. They have gone out to make their own Law to create their Own righteousness and thus at Jesus' second coming he will say to them Get away! I never KNEW you! Their trust was in Themselves and their own goodness rather than God's!

I wouldn't stumble over something they may have said that sounded good or not. In the end, they are just the blind leading the blind.

Ethan

Ancientofdays

When I hear that "no JW never killed another JW in a war.." in a speech , I usually think at WTS claiming Abraam being the first JW ever.

So the Israelites were JWs. Now give a read at I and II King or the Chronicles (II Chro 13:15-17; 28:5-8) books and find out how many JWs were engaged in wars.

And if was fratricide too. The 10 tribes versus the 2 tribes ..JWs versus JWs.

heathen

I can see most that replied on this thread believe as the fundamentals that somehow you can still kill and die over the mosaic law . I do remember jesus saying things like , not doing as the nations do , being separate from the world all together , the devil was in actual control of the political powers that be . The apostle Paul wrote some conflicting things but his writings did include stated such as , "a slave of the lord does not fight", "Seek peace and persue it", "keep yourself without spot from the world", "Return evil for evil to noone", Vengeance is mine sayeth YHVH and I will repay", Basically I get the message that you have to be peaceable to all people all the time no matter what sort of lousy miserable evil creepy person they are.

drew sagan

heathen Wars, battles, fights of self defense are all complicated issues. I think this has less to do with fundamentalists and more to do with people not wanting to paint such an issue with a large broad brush.

Since the purpose of this board is all things JW, I'm more interested in seeing if the reasonings used by Jehovah's Witnesses in particular are fair and honest. JWs want us to come to certain conclusions about their religion with their arguments. Seeing if we get their by honest and truthful arguments I feel is the most important thing when discussing these things on the board.

The Humper

i was an active JW until i joined the Army. then i was DA'd and i dont regret it at all. funny thing was in my basic training there was another guy who was also DA'd for joining the Army. i found out because there was a discussion about blood types and transfusions and he asked the drill instructor about being able to refuse a transfusion. that was a dead give away to me that he was a JW but no one else ever knew we were JW's.

i am also a Combat Medic and given the materials, part of my job is to actually help give blood transfusions!

Mum

Unfortunately, we live in the real world. If we are attacked, it is only right to defend ourselves.

As far as the JW's or any other group or individual, I'd rather hear about any good they have done rather than what they have not done.

Regards,

SandraC

TIMBOB

Thanks for the replies. There were some good points. It maybe on another thread, but it seems like witnesses say that they are the only neutral party, that no other religion teaches their followers that they should not go to war and kill another man, another man that may be of the same religion. Iv done a little searching around for that topic, seems I was reading somewhere that the 7th Day Advents and I think the mormons do the same? but they say its ok to serve in the hospital.

Wordly Andre

I've always had an objection to the way JW's talk about military service, well what comes to mind is World War two, I think in that war fighting Nazi's was the right thing to do, and how would god want his christian to just stand by and let Hitlers army destroy people like he did without wanting us to fight against him. A JW world with no Military, no Police, well that is a true world of evil unchecked.

drew sagan

TIMBOB
One important factor to remember is when you are talking to a JW they only have one goal, and that is to assert that they are the only true religion.

As soon as you mention to them that there are other groups that take simliar positions they will ask you who those groups are. As soon as they know of an exact group they will start to ask questions like 'well do they believe the trinity?', 'what about Jehovahs name?', 'What about Hellfire'.

Their goal is always to tear down all other religions so that you are left with them as the only ones that can be true. I think it is always important to realize this.

It's on this point that I personally would rather focus on the fact that the words, phrases and concepts that the JWs try to use to put themselves up on a pedestal are dishonest and crooked. As The Humper gave testimony to above, JWs do join the military. For the WTS to reclassify such people is a real cheap move.

christendom and war

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