I never had a bad personal experience, but as I remember, after someone was DF'd or DA'd, eventually you always found out why, sometimes with tid-bits about the JC conversation. The source would have to be the elders.
Confidentiality and the elders.
by LtCmd.Lore 36 Replies latest jw friends
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besty
When Sweet Pea went to tell her best friend why we weren't going to meetings anymore the friend said 'tell me what the problem is? I've heard it all before - 607, you name it..' from her husband former elder who had been involved with a few apostasy cases.
He'd obviously blabbed when he shouldn't have - the same guy later stepped down as elder and his wife told Sweet Pea they'd hit rock bottom as a married couple - yet to this day we don't know why he stepped down or what their problems were - yet we're their supposed {conditional} best friends.
Confidentiality where it suits themselves is the rule of thumb. -
LtCmd.Lore
OK, I'm gonna bring this up one more time... Are you SURE they can't be legally bound to it? Do we have any lawyers here?
It's called "priviledged communication" and it makes sure that spouses, clergy and doctors are not allowed to reveal information from you to them as confidential: http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p084.htm
Sure it's just a book publishing company, but legally it's also a religion. The elders have the legal right to perform marriages, and they use their clergy status as an excuse for not outing child abusers.
Lore
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Mum
LtC: The law has nothing to do with setting rules for religions. The Catholic Church set its own policy of confidentiality. Attorneys are hired to protect the interests of their clients, and have a code of ethics they must follow (okay, bring on the lawyer jokes!).
There are Protestant churches where ministers don't have to keep confidentiality either. If it's a religion, it pretty much makes its own rules.
I am not a lawyer, but I have worked in legal environments. I have also been an elder's wife, associated with elders' wives and know the gossip that goes on. Search court records and try to find a JW who successfully sued because of a breach of confidentiality. I predict you won't find it.
Regards,
SandraC
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neverendingjourney
Lore:
Privileged communications is an evidentiary concept that concerns whether a person under a special relationship can be forced reveal protected communications in a court of law. I don't think that applies in your case. The key issue is whether there is any legal expectation on your part for the communication to remain private and whether the law would grant damages if that confidentiality is breached. In the case of lawyers, doctors, psychologists, accountants, etc., they have professional licensing boards that oversee their behavior and have the authority to reprimand their members for breach of confidentiality or even revoke their licenses in extreme cases. Of course, that's not the case with JWs.
I think a better road for your research is to look to see if your jurisdiction considers the breach of confidentiality on the part of the elders to be a tort for which you can recover damages. Most, if not all, U.S. courts recognize the tort of public disclosure of private facts. That’s a good starting point for your research. If you're going to be able to sue and recover damages, it's going to be in tort, not for anything related to privileged communications.
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Sarah Smiles
People can laugh all they want, but yes I think you can take them to court! It a breach of a verbal contract. Every J.W. knows what goes on behind the elders room should stay between the elders and the publisher.
Someone will catch on!
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dedpoet
I think you can take them to court! It a breach of a verbal contract
Well, you can try, but if you take someone to court in such
circumstances, where is your evidence? The most "honest"
elder would lie to save his own ass, and if the conversation
he has spoken to others about is just between you and him
where's your evidence? It's your word against his, and I can't
see how you'd have a chance of winning.Okay, you could maybe bring witnesses to testify that he has
repeated to them what was said, but that wouldn't prove that
the original conversation was confidential, unless there was
a witness to that who would back you up.Taking an elder to court for breaching a verbal contract would
prove a pointless and costly excercise for the person bringing
the case. -
Gill
Thjey're NOT professionals! They're upstart idiots! They need to look good by telling EVERYONE YOUR business to show how powerful they are!!
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Mrs Smith
My PO father in law always to drop hints about what was going on in the congo. Never use to mension names but said things like "a certain young lady thought it was ok to sleep with her boyfriend but because of crossed line on the telephone an elder heard her talking to the boyfriends and realised it was them it was jah's way of keeping the congo clean."
Yes that is one of the many stories we heard.
There was a guy df'ed for among other things child abuse. My father in law left the paper work on his desk (we used to work together) and asked me to go and get something for him. I think it was his way to warn me that I must keep my kids away from this guy. He was usally more careful about leaving his JC minutes laying aroung. I'm greatful he did that as my son was friends with this perverts grandson so I could make sure that the play dates were at my house and not at his.
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blondie
The government does not enforce in-house religious rules or get involved unless they break a serious secular law, such as murder, fraud, theft, child abuse, etc.
If you have signed a legal document with said elder(s) to keep things confidential, such as in a business matter, that could be litigated in court depending on how the document reads.
In-house, you can take the Matthew 18 route of going to the person as an individual and discussing it. Then if they continue revealing confidences, you can take 2 other jws with you and discuss it, then if it continues, you can get the elder body involved. I have seen this done and if it can be proven by the 2 eyewitness rule and you yourself are not a confidence revealer or gossiper about private things, you might see the person "disciplined." I have rarely seen it happen unless the "authority" of the elder body is threatened.
Theoretically according to WTS "rules" regarding confidentiality
1) The elders on the fact-finding mission can discuss it among themselves,
2) in an abbreviated version with the rest of the elders,
3) and with elders outside the congregation if they leave the names out (of course any elder outside will be somewhat familiar with the people in that congregation and can easily put two and two together and get four).
4) they can discuss it with the CO and DO, especially if it is a possible df'ing matter. Many elders feel it is standard practice to include the CO in all dfings.
Most elders cross the line with confidentiality. Elders have a peculiar form of sharing info to build up their status and "gossip" more than the ladies ever do. After all, they have better information.
I always approached it this way; if I told an elder something, I had to be ready to imagine that it would be announced in detail from the platform that week...and if it didn't matter to me, I revealed that info to them.
Always remember, tell one elder, you've told them all, including the one elder that tells his gossipy wife everything. I have known wives and children to secretly listen in on conversations.
While some elders, wives, and children can be scrupulous in not revealing info, the ones that do far outnumber the ones that don't.
Blondie (do you want another elder to know something but don't want to confront it head on, tell another elder and let him do the dirty work)