Just an idea - not certain what I actually believe about below:
The fall of Adam (mankind) is an ongoing process as we (a pre-created/organised innocent spirit) die spiritually (leave our Father - cast out of Eden / Heaven) in order to experince life and consequence (have eyes opened) receive our coat of skins (physical body), perpetuate the process (procreate - multiply and refill / replenish earth), our entry to earth is via Mother's blood / water (birth) and represents the cojoining of spirit (created by God) with matter (made of the dust)- scriptuarally termed a soul. Baptism represents this process again but in reverse - death of the sinful spirit born through water and the blood (Christ's) into a new being cojoined with the spirit (of God) with the sanctified soul. On actual death (separation of the sanctified but imperfect body from a spirit in some state dependant on choices made) there is a spiritual rebirth in heaven (i.e. a return to God) but this would be 'impossible' according to a strict definition of justice since all have made a conscious decision to reject God at some level. With Christ as the one sinless one having willingly already suffered all possible punishments there is now a mediator who can request mercy. God can thus dispense justice and mercy contingent upon one having the capacity to pay the price. Thus Jesus' sacrifice would ransom those who so desired to return to God. Now we would potentially be 'gods' knowing good from evil, having open eyes but owing all to God's mercy and Christ's sacrifice - i.e. retaining God's position as leader while granting all knowledge to those willing to accept his position.
Of course a fair amount of the above is LDS admixture to various other brands of Christianity and Judaism.
The sacrifice of Christ to redeem humankind, Why?
by VM44 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Qcmbr
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keyser soze
It's using one myth to validate another. It's a way of tying a bunch of otherwise unrelated stories together.
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Nathan Natas
And the killing of sacrificial animals served what purpose?
It fulfilled man's need for barbeque. The theological debate rages over whether the Israelites used a sauce, a mop or a rub, or some combination. Poor bastards had to make due with Acacia wood, which is very resinous and pitchy. Too bad they didn't have Mesquite in the Promised Land. -
White Dove
That never made sense to me, either. It made as much sense to me as birthday celebrations, Thanksgiving (aren't there supposed to be two words?), and cheerleading are bad.
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JamesThomas
Rather than getting lost in the minutia of Biblical whys and wherefores, it may be more beneficial to simply see the insanity of it all; and then choose to dwell elsewhere; perhaps living in reality would be a good place.
imo
j
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IP_SEC
I can give you the JW answer to how it works but thats about all
Adam was the father of all mankind. He fell into sin and passed it on as an inheritance.
When Jesus came to earth as a full human he had two rights.
1. Live forever unless he sinned
2. Have perfect children
He was murdered without cause, therefore those two rights were taken away from him illegally. They had to be repaid. Instead of taking them back and coming back to earth. He exchanged his undeserved loss of those two rights for what adam lost. Now humans who have the ransom applied to them can be adopted as children in lieu of jesus' children who were never born. In this way he becomes our eternal father.. -
Leolaia
I understand what you are saying JamesThomas, and I agree of course that reality (whatever one construes it to be) is more important, but I do not agree that it is not worth talking about. If someone asks how the judgment of the dead is supposed to work in Egyptian religion, it is perfectly sane to discuss how Egyptian mythology works without any thought of it being a distraction from reality. I am simply trying to explain how the system works, the internal logic, to someone who was wondering. I felt compelled to explain it in this thread because I was struck by the fact that SO FEW actually understand this system, and this is naturally because of a cultural clash... us moderns do not share the same legal system used in the ANE. If it is not worth talking about, it is also not worth talking about Plato, ancient Egyptian religious concepts, or Roman law. Everything has a place.
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nvrgnbk
It seems that when one actually thinks things through for themselves rather than accept what's presented
Why that's a novel approach poppers!
perhaps living in reality would be a good place.
Damn you j! Reality? C'mon! You're kidding right? Isn't that too simple?
To quote David Byrne: Stop Making Sense! LOL!
He says, "we're being taken for a ride again....."
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cultswatter
When something unexplainable happens it is human nature to just make up a story that can be understood in human terms. Like Christ' sacrifice to equate to Adam. A fancy story at best. Probably the real nature of these electromagnetically powered species we call gods could only be understood by a higher civilization so we might have to wait for the real reason.
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JamesThomas
Leolaia,
Yes, I agree that everything has a place.
There are many here who champion the Bible as if it is more than just literature, and place a good deal of their definition of self into it. Perhaps the gist of my post was just to rattle the cage a little. No harm meant.
I must admit that the Bible it not totally worthless, in fact the many years of my reading it taught me a very important lesson: that truth/reality is not found in ink and paper, no matter how sacred and holy people may believe those pages to be.
j