Fuel From a Garden Hose - Hydrogen Fuel

by BlackPearl 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • BlackPearl
    BlackPearl

    Has anyone here thought about the possibilities of getting all of our fuel needs from the unlimited supply of Hydrogen in our water? You see, there two parts Hydrogen to every single part Oxygen in H2O. What that means is, if we can extract the Hydrogen from the water, we can burn it as a fuel, just like propane or gasoline. The possiblities are limitless. I've got the basic concept down, but I wish there were others I could talk to on the subject, it intrigues the daylights out of me. I wish I could create a box for every home that was about the size of a dishwasher that would extract the Hrydrogen out of your tap water to make it available for our cars, generators, etc... We could even make electricity out of it,...no more dams needed!

    BP

    (Of the...I'm dreaming of amazing things class)

  • CaptainSchmideo
    CaptainSchmideo

    Well, all you have to do is watch the DVD that is being advertised on this thread, which was triggered by your subject.

    The wonders of Internet Ads!

    BTW, I'm just kidding about actually watching the DVD....

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Here is a good forum for do-it-yourself hydrogen generation. There are some very knowledgeable people there that will be happy to get you up to speed.

    j

  • BlackPearl
    BlackPearl

    That link is fantastic, thanks.

    BP

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    It's a fascinating subject.

    If you go to the very top of the forum there, and click on the forum name, it takes you to a page that has many of the members listed along with pictures of there projects.

    There is a fellow there named Bob Boyce, who is definitely one of the gurus of hydrogen generation. I suggest checking out all his past posts. There are other very knowledgeable folks there as well with some real experience under their belts.

    Have fun, and be very careful as electrolysis will generally give you a hydroxy mix of hydrogen/oxygen which is extremely explosive stuff. You can start off with a very inexpensive small experimental unit and work your way up to a booster for a car, or whatever. It's all there.

    j

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    Water is not a fuel. Hydrogen is not an energy source. It is a way to store energy made by some other means. You need energy from something, like solar cells or an electric power plant fueled by coal, natural gas or nuclear energy, to make hydrogen. Hydrogen can be made on an industrial scale from natural gas and even coal. It costs more energy to split the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen than the energy you get from using the hydrogen in a fuel cell. No matter how efficient your process, you cannot go beyond the laws of physics.

    Using hydrogen as an energy storage medium is almost the same thing as when you charge your Li-Ion, Ni-Cad, or NiMH batteries from your wall outlet. Using hydrogen is like using a battery. I say almost, because hydrogen is an extremely corrosive gas that requires careful storage in special containers. Fittings that can normally hold water and air under pressure may still leak hydrogen because it is the smallest element. Hydrogen storage is rocket science.

    In order to produce sufficient quantities of hydrogen for use in a fuel cell vehicle from solar cells, you would need to invest tens of thousands of dollars in a solar array alone. Beyond that is the space that such an array would require (I'll let you do the math), electrolysis equipment, and professionally maintained containment systems. This is not a one-time investment. Fuel cells wear out just like regular rechargeable batteries do. Solar panels also have a useful life after which they must be replaced.

    I have no love for the oil companies, by the way. I believe their days are numbered. There will always be some oil in the ground somewhere, but when it costs more energy to extract a barrel of oil than the energy gained from using that barrel of oil as a fuel, then the oil age as we have known it will cease to exist. This is known as Energy Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI). Oil extraction back in the 1930s had an ERoEI of at least 30 to 1. Today, the ERoEI is much lower due to water injection, deep sea exploration, and refinery costs.

    On our planet hydrogen doesn't exist freely outside of molecules. Some of those molecules contain stored potential energy. They are usually referred to as hydrocarbons, molecules containing hydrogen and carbon. They include natural gas, oil, and coal. These substances are extracted from the earth's surface, and the energy gained from them has been far higher than the energy used to extract them. This has been the basis of our industrial society. Hydrogen is found in abundance in water. The water molecule is an energy sink. To break it apart takes lots of energy. It is not a fuel. There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine either.

    I know that this post will come across negatively. I'm sorry for that. These are the facts. There are alternatives that do work, at least for the time being. Electric cars that run on batteries are available now. People have converted older cars to run on common batteries with electric motors. Another alternative is biodiesel or even used vegetable oil. Again, people have made conversions to existing diesel engines to run these alternative fuels. Transportation doesn't have to be rocket science.

    Dave

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    I looked for prices on hydrogen fueled vehicles and couldn't find one under a million dollars!

    Also the fuel cells are extremely pricey and take a lot of energy to produce.

    Some people claim you can recharge the cells yourself using solar energy, but that means I am out of luck because we don't have the sun here (seriously).

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    One word: Hindenburg

    Watch the film and then ask yourself if want to be driving around with a tank full of this stuff in your car.

  • BlackPearl
    BlackPearl

    PrimateDave - Thanks for your comments, I'm fairly new at the idea, please help me understand;

    1. Why can't solar power be used as the energy source at an individuals home to produce the Hydrogen and store it? Then fill the tank once a week with the collected Hydrogen.
    2. If we're using solar power to produce the Hydrogen, then I guess the question arises, why not just use the energy produced by the solar collector to power a vehicle in a battery and skip the Hydrogen process?
    3. Can the Hydrogen be collected onboard the vehicle while traveling? Could we put solar panels on the rooftop (or some sort of wind generated form of collecting energy in the grill- like the windmills that produce energy by virtue of generating energy with the wind passing by) of the vehicle to capture the electrical power needed to produce the Hydrogen, then use that DC power to extract Hydrogen when the car needs it as opposed to storing it?
    4. Why can't we use Hydrogen as a fuel and burn it like gasoline in our engines as it's being produced onboard?

    I don't intend for these questions to sound stupid, but there's got to be a better way than gasoline. Maybe electric is the ticket. It takes the same amount of energy to propel the car forward with electricity as it does gasoline, but... the difference is....there is no burning of a fossil fuel, hence no pollution. The same goes for Hydrogen, the byproduct of burned Hydrogen is steam, = no pollution. Or of course, unburned Hydrogen, can still be used as noted in your example. It does have to be burned as a fuel in order to produce energy. It would seem, at the end of the day, that truly "FREE" energy must come from;

    1. A wind source to produce electricity for storage or production of Hydrogen
    2. A solar source to produce elecricity for storage or production of Hydrogen
    3. An ocean source, using the power of tides
    4. Or????

    BP

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Supposedly the Hindenburg didn't ignite because of hydrogen. It was something else, i forget what, it's mentioned on several sites...

    Also supposedly the fuel cells are no more combustible than a gas tank.

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